Text frames on master page query

In planning a long document, I have come up with a question that may be basic but is confusing me.



I have an A5 sized document with 1/2'' margin all the way around. I created master pages A) for a single page and B) for a double page spread. Master text frame checkbox checked when creating these pages. My copy will flow across the whole page so there's no columns.

I also manually dragged out a text frame on these Master pages encompassing the whole page so this appears on my document pages I create.



When I File%26gt;place a word document text it imports the text within it's own text frame, (which is slightly smaller than the length of my page so i have to drag the bottom of the frame downwards to snap to my bottom margin), rather than flowing it into the text frame I had created on my master pages. I think this is leading to duplication of my text frames



So, what is the best procedure for setting up my documents, so that my text frames aren't duplicated. Should I not manually create text frames on my Master pages?? Should I not check ''Master frame'' checkbox on creation?



It;s probably 200 pages so want to get this part right now :)



Thanks,



JRH
Text frames on master page query
Master text frames are kind of like Hamlet -- to be or not to be, that is the question.



Here's how they work: if you have a master text frame, it can be utilized in one of two ways. The first is to Ctrl-Click to override onto the live page and then use it the same way as if you had just drawn it. The second is to PLACE text into it, using the place command.



When you do this, you need to watch your cursor carefully. The loaded cursor will change from looking like a page corner to looking like the text is contained in a large set of parentheses, which indicates that the text will flow into an existing frame. If you don't see the parentheses ID will create a new frame which is not threaded to your master page.



Frames that InDesign creates on the fly start with the top at the point where you click, fill the width of the column guides (or page margins if you have only one column), and extend to the bottom margin guide, unless you hold the mouse button and drag another shape as you place.



I'm having trouble understanding the part about needing to drag the frame down to the bottom margin. Do you really mean margin, or do you mean the bottom of the page? Also, if you've added a second master frame the size of the page boundaries, unless you've moved it behind the automatically created frame (from checking the master frame box), it should basically be unavoidable that placed text would use that frame.



The automatic frame fills the page margin guides you set in the Document Setup dialog. For the most part I've always found this to be pretty useless because using autoflow while placing will also create new pages with threaded frames that fill the guides or margins. The difference mostly becomes apparent when you use multiple columns. A master frame will span the page to fill the margins and will contain the number of columns specified. Non-master auto-flow generated frames will be individual frames for each column.



My rule of thumb is if you want your text to fill the page margins you don't need, or want, a master text frame. If you want something special, as, for example, a magazine layout where you have multiple blocks laid out to a particular grid, master frames (created or modified by you) may be helpful. Other things that master frames are good for is pre-formatting, but that's easily handled in alternate ways, and for globally changing the layout (but again, if you've filled the guides, enabling layout adjustment should do the same thing) or some specific attribute like frame background or stroke color.



I just finished a 100-page book. It used two masters. The first, for the bulk of the pages, had master frames for page numbering and running heads (using variables), but no master text frames for running text. The second, for Chapter start pages, had a page number, and two threaded text frames, one for the chapter title, and one for the beginning of the text, so they could be located lower on the page. In this case I needed to thread the title (or at least it was convenient to do so) because of the way the author had set up his file and the variable length of titles and subtitles.



Did any of that help? Come back with more detail and we can offer more specific advice.



Peter
Text frames on master page query
%26gt;When I File%26gt;place a word document text it imports the text within it's own text frame, (which is slightly smaller than the length of my page so i have to drag the bottom of the frame downwards to snap to my bottom margin), rather than flowing it into the text frame I had created on my master pages.



Have you enabled layout adjustments? If not, you need to do all kinds of things like that by hand, because a modified layout does not propagate quite as you might expect.



I've never used master page text frames in book-length material, so I'm not sure how they add to complexity. That they do is probably unescapable -- and so I suspect they're to be avoided.



How about dropping them from the master page, and then a) ensuring layout adjustment is enabled, and b) verifying master page and document page layout by selecting *all* of each in turn (i.e. first all master pages, then all document pages), and checking that Layout | Margin and Columns doesn't show any empty boxes. If it does, set the value you want. (Of course, if your design calls for different margins on different pages, you'll have to take each such set separately)

Thanks Peter and Anders for taking the time. Peter, your point about checking the cursor is loaded properly when importing text into my document was important as this was probably the reason I was seeing text imported in it's own frame.



So, let me see if I distilled this correctly, since I will experiment later on. If it seems long it's because I want to try and be clear in what I am asking.:)



A.If I open a document, and let's say ''Master Text Frame'' option is checked, it will essentially enable an ''invisible'' text frame on that master (and thus any document pages)the boundaries of this frame are determined by my document margin set-up. Also on this master will be a frame for auto page numbering and a frame for the footer which will display the book name on every page.



If I create a document based on Master A, I should be able to import and flow text (noting the cursor is displaying parentheses) into the document and will be constrained by my margins.



B. You implied that Master Text Frames may not be the best way to go.

Thus, if I do exactly as above, but uncheck the ''Master Text'' frame option when creating the document, will all the text import the same way, and just fill the boundaries dictated by my margins?



If that is the case, then my rule of thumb to set out these pages will be as you say, just set my margins, not creating any manual frames (other than page numbers and footer boxes) on my Master's and making sure the cursor is loaded correctly.



I think this was the bit that was confusing me, whether or not to uncheck or check the Master Frame Box.



Also, Ander mentions Enabling Page layout adjustment. I've not had to use it, but I assume let's say I want to change my margins and I change them on my Master, won't this update my documents.



What does enabling Layout Adjustment do for me setting up such a project and when should you use it?.



Again, thanks for the enlightened taking time to help out, it's a great forum.



Julian

%26gt;Also on this master will be a frame for auto page numbering and a frame for the footer which will display the book name on every page.



Only you if you add them yourself. Presumably that's what you mean.



%26gt;Thus, if I do exactly as above, but uncheck the ''Master Text'' frame option when creating the document, will all the text import the same way, and just fill the boundaries dictated by my margins?



Yes, except on the first page where you place the text, where the position of the top of the frame is determined by where you click with the mouse. If you place text into an existing frame it makes no difference where in the frame you click (in fact you can click at the end of a string of threaded frames and the text will start to flow at the upper left corner of the first frame in the thread).



%26gt;If that is the case, then my rule of thumb to set out these pages will be as you say, just set my margins, not creating any manual frames (other than page numbers and footer boxes) on my Master's and making sure the cursor is loaded correctly.



The cursor will not change in this case because you have no pre-existing frame to put the text into. :)



The results from using Layout adjustment can be a bit variable, but are fairly predictable if frames touch margin guides. The difference here is that master text frames remain linked (other than attributes you edit on a live page) to the master page, so if you alter the size or shape on the master page, and haven't done anything to the size or shape on the live page, the changes you make on the master will propagate onto the live pages. Layout adjustment attempts to accomplish the same thing with ALL frames, i.e. when you change the margins ID will change the shape of all frames that touch those margins. Layout Adjustment works on both live pages and master pages.



Generally speaking you use Layout Adjustment when you've been working for a while on a project and discover that your original assumptions about dimensions were incorrect. You enable it before making changes.



Peter

Awesome, that clears it up for this project, but I get the drift that in more complicated and variable pages, creating text frames on a master page may be the way to go.



In this instance, I'll leave them alone.



I think I get the layout adjustment - If I decide to change my bottom margin from .75'' to 1'', with layout adjustment enabled, making this change on my masters will automatically shrink my text area and then reflow my text accordingly.



Again, this has dispelled a nagging cloud over my head.



Best,



JRH