when designing a brochure, is it possible to create outlines from all text, within a brochure at ones, instead of creating outlines every page separate.
When delivering a brochure to press it isn't necessary to create outlines from text, u can include fonts in a PDF file, I know. But to prevent unexpected errors when printing, u usually do create outlines from every text box.
I hope that this feature is included in InDesign CS3.
Thanks in advance!
Robert
Automatic text outlines
%26gt; But to prevent unexpected errors when printing, u usually do create outlines from every text box.
That is totally incorrect. If your printer can't handle files with
real text, it's time to find someone who can.
Bob
Automatic text outlines
Bob,
u are right. All printers can handle real text!
My question still stands, is there a way to make outlines from text in ID from a multiple page document at ones?
Robert
Not without a script.
Bob
http://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way.php
Bob -
I disagree with your comment regarding the fact that all printers should be able to work with fonts. In particular, when using complex, or non-'Roman' fonts such as Arabic, often fonts are read incorrectly in RIP or even PDF, causing 'boxes' or misplaced text and can seriously jeopardise the print job, so it is recommended to always convert to outlines in such cases.
You can disagree all you want, but this the year 2009. Nobody with a modern workflow would every recommend converting all text to outlines no matter what language it is.
Bob
Sorry, but have you ever worked with Arabic?
No but there are plenty of people here who do and I've yet to see any one of them recommend something as archaic as converting it to outlines.
Bob
Any PDF file with properly embedded fonts should render and print properly (at least as far as text is concerned), regardless of whether the text is in English, French, Russian, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Arabic, Hebrew, Farsi, Kuzbanian, whatever when printed via a RIP conforming to either the PDF language specifications or the PostScript language specifications. The RIP is totally unaware of what ''language'' the text is in or that the font represents!
There is no reason whatsoever to turn text into outlines unless you are dealing with a print service provider with (1) a coal-powered, steam-driven RIP from the previous century, (2) a Neanderthal attitude or educational level, (3) very obsolete workflows (such as using QuarkXPress as an imposition tool or ancient prepress workflow components incompatible with this century's standards), or (4) a combination of the above.
A demand by a printer or a client (if you are a designer for a print customer) for text converted to outlines is a sure sign of the likelihood of other problems as well. Run!聽聽
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
PS: Yes, I have worked with Arabic as well as those other languages (except for Kuzbanian) without any problems!
聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
I've had sign companies tell me they need outlines for their cutting plotters, but I suspect that falls into the ''(1) a coal-powered, steam-driven RIP from the previous century'' category.
Haha! Yes, Peter and Dov... I've a wonderful picture in my head, now, of a kind of Victorian wheel and cog setup...
In any case, thanks for all the feedback with regards to this point, and I certainly get your points as well! But I would like to illustrate my point with an example.
Dov, I agree, of course (who in their right mind wouldn't!?) that generally if everyone has progressed suitably into the current century, that any font should read absolutely fine in any rip, and any PDF file with properly embedded fonts should render and print. The fact of the matter is, however, that it is not always the case!
Leading on from this, I have uploaded an example of what can happen with some fonts... whether this is simply a badly designed font with bad hinting and so on, or something else, I don't know, but it is (meant to be!) a professionally designed font. And it is an unfortunately regular occurrence when using Arabic fonts in particular, I have found.
http://www.wildfiregraphic.net/files/arabic/WFDP9018UN-1.0_M-SUMMARY_p1.indd.pdf
The PDF was generated from InDesign CS3 Middle East version from a Post Script through Distiller. I have been working in Arabic for 10 years now and have constantly run into these sorts of problems, and I would say to be on the safe side, that it would always be safer to create outlines by using the transparency flattener!
One doesn't want to be responsible for an unreadable 220 page report, for example. I don't think that would go down all that well!
I look forward to comment and feedback!
Cheers - WildfirePro
your link isn't working.
Postscript and distiller also fall under the coal-powered, steam-driven category.
Even PDFs exported out of Microsoft Word don't use postscript, anymore.
If you don't want to be responsible for a 220 page report being unreadable find a reputable printer to produce the job. If the client insists on a luddite then make them aware that you can't and won't be held responsible.
Bob
I'm looking forward to seeing that PDF file, if we would be able to access it. I am getting a ''denied permissions'' error when clicking on your hyperlink.
Note that Adobe's recommended workflow is direct export of PDF from InDesign, not creating and distilling PostScript although for text purposes, this should not make a real difference.
One other thing which could very well be your problem is be ''embeddability'' of the fonts. If the Arabic fonts are either TrueType of OpenType (either flavour of OpenType - CFF or TrueType), they may be locked (via flags in the font file itself) against embedding in either PDF, PostScript, or EPS files. Adobe applications and Acrobat observe such restrictions when present in fonts that you use. And if your Distiller joboptions don't prescribe abortion of the PDF creation job when encountering either missing or non-embeddable fonts, you could readily end up with the problems of missing fonts in the resultant PDF file. Outlining text in your layout program obviously would ''get around'' such font embedding restrictions although for many fonts, per the EULA (End User License Agreement) of such fonts, use of either outlining or rasterization of the fonts to get around the embedding restriction is also prohibited!!! And hackery associated with transparency and flattening to accomplish such outlining or rasterization are in the same realm as manually performing such actions! (You don't want a non-kosher use of Arabic fonts, do you?)
You may ask of what use is a font that doesn't allow embedding in the output stream? Our (Adobe's) contention is that such fonts are like a ''roach motel'' in terms of usability. Check whether the fonts are restricted and if so, contact the font vendor to get fonts and a license that does permit embedding.
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
PS:聽 Remember that font is a four letter word beginning with an f.
Peter,
In all seriousness, the sign cutting issue is a valid one. In my day job as the spiritual venture capitalist for the Adobe PDF Print Engine, this issue has come up a few times with our OEM partners. Current RIPs feeding cutting plotters typically only accept a subset of PostScript, the vector stuff, for their operations (try visualizing halftoning such an operation :-) ). Conceivably, they could develop either a PostScript or PDF RIP that when encountering text would simply use the outlines as opposed to rasterizing same. But, alas, that doesn't yet seem to be the these work, at least yet! Similar issues come up with setting of cutting instructions for graphic arts packaging jobs.
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
Hi Peter -
I have uploaded the file to a place where it can be accessed now! Please see below:
http://wildfiregraphic.net/client/UNISDR_ZIPS/WFDP9018UN-1.0_M-SUMMARY_p1.indd.p df
Sorry about that!
Bob - it is often the case that you have to work with a client-nominated printer, as I am sure you know, and while I agree it should be identified that one should not be held responsible, is it really necessary to be so rigid and risk incorrect output when it is really very simple to avoid potential error?
It is interesting that you say that using Distiller etcetera has gone the way of the dinosaurs. I would agree that it is definitely on the way out, and that the new Adobe PDF Print Engine is fast becoming the new(ish) standard (and definitely improves workflow and output), but currently, it is still phasing out, and I still know many firms that utilise the distilling method, if not all the time, but sometimes. In fact, while I will generally utilise the direct export myself, in this particular instance, I had to use the distill method due to an InDesign crash every time I tried exporting...
In any case, as far as I know, the first version of the APPE was launched in 2006, and Heidelberg started incorporating it in 2007. I don't even think the next gen version 2 has been released yet... correct me if I'm wrong!
CS4 is still pretty new, too, and in a time where people and companies are struggling to keep afloat, I am sure many people will be loathe to upgrade to newer software versions, which may also, more likely than not, involve new hardware upgrades too, so CS2/CS3 may hang about longer as a tool within the workflow environment than previous versions did when cash was flowing aplenty! I would imagine that this might mean that people may stick to their tried and tested methods for workflow and print-ready artwork production, but again, I may be wrong.
Cheers
I think the point is that there may be some specialized applications that would require font outlining, but they are far from mainstream printing, and a printer who asks you to outline the fonts in a newsletter or similar project, as a matter of course, is just out of touch with the modern world.
Hey there Dov -
Just read through your posts. Thanks again for the informative responses! But there are no restricitons on the font at all.
Furthermore, after I sorted out the InDesign crashing issue (which was due to client-provided dodgy EPS files), which, to remind, kept happening every time I tried exporting clean to PDF, the fonts embedded fine, with no 'squaring'.
I am guessing that is why Distilling is going the way of the dinosaurs??? Might anyone have an explanation for that?
Cheers - Nisa
This has nothing to do with the APPE. Exporting PDFs has been the standard since InDesign 2.0 (not CS2) was in early 2002. That's seven years ago. When Acrobat 8.1 came along even MS applications with the PDF plugin from Acrobat skipped postscript.
That said, like Dov I can't see where it should make that big a difference with text only. But the fact is converting text to outlines destroys the hinting and can have an adverse affect on the look of a document. I'm sorry but I still strongly disagree with you on this but I'm not going to continue this debate. Do as you wish.
Bob
Try this:
1. Export the PDF and set the subset to 0.
2. If you insist on distilling at least print to Adobe PDF and use the download PPD fonts option.
Bob
Bob -
Thanks for the response. I agree with you that in an ideal world outlines should NEVER have to be created! Also, I never actually use the 'text to outlines' option in InDesign, as you are correct... that does tend to muck things up rather.
The best method I have found is to use the transparency flattener, which keeps things nicely in place.
I have been using InDesign since its launch (when it was all bugged out!), so I am familiar with each and every stage of the software.But thanks for clearing up the APPE with me. I was clearly mistaken.
Cheers
''2. If you insist on distilling at least print to Adobe PDF and use the download PPD fonts option.''
I had tried that before, and got the linked result...
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