IDCS3 on Windows XP Pro 64.. We recently went from Corel Software to Adobe.. The Problem is, that in Corel Ventura under Paragraph properties there is a way to create a box or stroke around a selected paragraph in the advanced rules dialog.. But in Indesign the only solution we can come up with is to create each paragraph we need stroked in it's own text frame and to tell the frame to be stroked, or to draw a stroked box around the paragraph in question which makes flowing this text into our layout very difficult and painfully time consuming.. and so far ruling lines don't help because it's a single line above or below the paragraph not a closed stroke around the paragraph which is what we need. Normaly we ould put our paper together in a half day in Corel Ventura cause of the simplicity of applying the paragraph rule, but in InDesign it's taking us 2 full days because of this probblem! We switched to adobe cs3 Design Premium cause it looked like we'd have more options and less problems, but so far it's the oposite?
how do i create a box or STROKE around...
You can paste a stroked text frame inline into the flow of text if you like, though you can't thread through it, which I would say is not something you would want to do anyway. The only problem I see is if the paragraph in question needs to break at the end of a column -- anchored objects don't break.
If that's not a concern, you can speed things up by defining an object style for the stroke and positioning on the frame.
You might want to look at http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.59b7f99b
Peter
how do i create a box or STROKE around...
Your only good options are an anchored text frame (as Peter suggested)
or a table. A one-cell table is pretty easy to make (swipe the paragraph
minus the return, Table %26gt; Convert Text to Table, choose a table style
that applies a stroke). It will keep the text in the flow (as opposed to
the anchored frame), sort of. It won't break across pages.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
I have a script for this that uses paragraph rules I am selling:
http://mysite.verizon.net/zevt/index_files/BoxMaker.htm
The truth of the Corel to Adobe matter is that you'll always have more options/features with Corel. And Adobe lags behind Corel in some features by 5 to 10 years. That being said, in my opinion, Adobes products will probably serve you better in the long run.
Before I get absolutely flamed, thems facts thar, up to the point where I offer my opinion. I'm also an Adobe Certified Expert in InDesign, and absolutely love it.
To do what you want, and have it happen with a paragraph style, you need to set up a style using the paragraph rules, with one rule sitting on top of the other, and set the insets and offsets to get what appears to be a rule around your paragraph. A pain in the arse to setup, but fortunately you'll only have to do it once. I'd be happy to shot you an example if you post your email.
Alternatively, if you could live with a rule above and below your para, and none on the sides, that's super easy to accomplish.
HTH
-Ted
Hold on here a minute guys. Someone, and it could easily be me since I don't know the first thing about Ventura, is misinterpreting the question.
Paragraph rules are SOLID. Cheryl asked for a box or stroke AROUND a paragraph. To me that says put a stroked frame around it and leave the background color alone.
Am I missing something?
Peter
%26gt; To do what you want, and have it happen with a paragraph style, you
%26gt; need to set up a style using the paragraph rules, with one rule
I've been trying to figure this out. A box around a paragraph is going
to have 4 rules, and paragraph rules are only going to account for two
of these. I'm willing to accept the idea that you would have to make a
different style for every different height box (because ''height'' of the
vertical rules is really going to be thickness), but I can't get around
how to make 4 rules out of two.
Please send me one: kbenson at pegtype dot com
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
%26gt; Paragraph rules are SOLID. Cheryl asked for a box or stroke AROUND a paragraph. To me that says put a stroked frame around it and leave the background color alone.
%26gt;
%26gt; Am I missing something?
If you set up a rule above with a solid black and a rule below with
white you can make a box around a paragraph (because rule below
overprints rule below).
As ZeroskillZ said it's a pain in the arse to setup which is my I wrote
my script which takes away all the difficult work.
Peter, Ventura offers a ''rule around'' in addition to ''rule above'' and
''rule below''. Rule above and rule below work about the same way as in
Indesign. Rule around just draws a box around the paragraph, shrinks or
grows as the paragraph gets shorter or longer, just like a table cell
with a stroke.
Seems like it would be really useful, but page breaks make it something
that clients like but typesetters hate. The boxes are forever breaking
across pages, and the whole point of a box is to highlight a discrete,
unbroken block of text. Paragraph rules, indenting, second color, or a
different typeface are all much better design choices.
I don't think you're misinterpreting the question. I just want to know
how to do it with paragraph rules.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
%26gt; If you set up a rule above with a solid black and a rule below with
%26gt; white you can make a box around a paragraph (because rule below
%26gt; overprints rule below).
Thanks, Fred
I think I understand now. Very cool.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Indeed. Quite clever, and the lesson for the week. :)
Thanks
Sunday, April 4, 2010
Text w/ Rules on Top
Hi,
I'm trying to deconstruct a file from a client. They have a text box with a few words, one word per line and above each line is a rule in a different color (for people to write on). However, there is no way to select the rule. It's not a manually created stroke, not an image, and I don't see any customized paragraph or character styles selected for the rule. How has this been created? I need to edit it.
Thanks.
Text w/ Rules on Top
Sounds like a rule above in the paragraph but the fact that they're
different colors would mean that each was done individually.
I'd need to see the file to be totally sure.
Bob
I'm trying to deconstruct a file from a client. They have a text box with a few words, one word per line and above each line is a rule in a different color (for people to write on). However, there is no way to select the rule. It's not a manually created stroke, not an image, and I don't see any customized paragraph or character styles selected for the rule. How has this been created? I need to edit it.
Thanks.
Text w/ Rules on Top
Sounds like a rule above in the paragraph but the fact that they're
different colors would mean that each was done individually.
I'd need to see the file to be totally sure.
Bob
noob having template problems
hi guys, i need to make a two third a4 size flyer (it will fold down the middle so you get a long folded flyer)
problem is, i cant seem to get it right, does anyone have a template, or know where i could get hold of one?
i need to make the design for both sides of the paper, the one i attempted to make only gives me access to one side.
cheers for any help
steve
noob having template problems
You need to make a two-page template (or, if things are the same on both sides just add a second page based on the master page with the stuff you need) when you print on two sides. Each side of the sheet is considered to be a page ( in this case you DON'T need to set up facing pages, though). :)
new lipstick
problem is, i cant seem to get it right, does anyone have a template, or know where i could get hold of one?
i need to make the design for both sides of the paper, the one i attempted to make only gives me access to one side.
cheers for any help
steve
noob having template problems
You need to make a two-page template (or, if things are the same on both sides just add a second page based on the master page with the stuff you need) when you print on two sides. Each side of the sheet is considered to be a page ( in this case you DON'T need to set up facing pages, though). :)
Optional vertical space marker in CS4?
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows if there exists, in IDCS4, some sort of way
of creating vertical space between paragraphs that will not appear if the
paragraph happens to begin at the top of the page.
Obviously, until now I've been using paragraph styles. But some kind of
vertical space marker would be so much simpler. You could have one for a
half-line height, or a full-line height and just insert them as necessary.
If not, any workarounds except for paragraph styles?
Thanks,
Ariel
Win XPSP3, IDCS4ME
Optional vertical space marker in CS4?
When you say ''paragraph styles'' do you mean you want to aoid using any
paragraph formatting? Because if not, you could just manually add space
before.
And why are you trying to avoid using formatting?
Optional vertical space marker in CS4?
Hi Fred,
Yes I want to avoid using formatting.
Why?
Simple.
Let's say I've got 8 paragraph styles for various types of body text.
Sometimes, any one of these styles can need a full blank line before,
sometimes just a 1/2 blank line before.
If I were to create paragraph styles for each of these eventualities, that
would mean another 16 styles.
However, if there was a vertical space marker, I wouldn't need any extra
styles at all. It's much simpler.
Thanks,
Ariel
But that's what I was saying, you don't have to create paragraph styles,
just add the space before manually as local formatting.
I'm guessing you already know about Space Above (and Space Below), but I
don't understand why you don't want to use it.
As far as I can tell, CS4 has nothing for vertical spacing that CS3
doesn't have.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Ah, I see what you're both getting at.
The answer is that I want to avoid using local overrides.
Ken, I skipped from CS2 to CS4. Maybe I missed something in CS3 that might
help?
Hi Ariel,
I don't understand either why you don't want to use Space Before and
Space After, but you can get the effect that you want.
Just use (invisible) inline (or above line) vertical lines to add the
space. You'll have to use set leading and not Auto or not use ''Leading''
as your First Baseline Offset.
--
Harbs
http://www.in-tools.com
Hi Harbs,
Thanks for your suggestion. It looks interesting, but I'm not managing to
find a TextWrap setting that will accomplish this.
However, an anchored object off the end of the previous paragraph with text
wrap applied may do the trick failing something simpler.
(And as I mentioned previously, the point here is to avoid local overrides
if possible.)
Ariel
%26gt; Just use (invisible) inline (or above line) vertical lines to add the
%26gt; space. You'll have to use set leading and not Auto or not use ''Leading''
%26gt; as your First Baseline Offset.
I get the opposite of what Ariel wants. If I draw a vertical rule, cut
it and paste it at the front of a paragraph, it takes up no space
*except* at the top of a page.
Why vertical?
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
That is strange.
Nothing happens if it's at the top of the page for me, which is correct. But
for some reason if it's in the middle of the page it creates a one-line gap
below. Weird.
Okay, creating a 14.5pt square (=bodytext leading in this case), inserting
it as an anchored object at the end of the previous paragraph, adding
a -14.5 y offset, and setting textwrap to ''Jump object'' seems to work,
pending further experimentation (or a simpler method).
%26gt; or a simpler method
Perhaps I'm crazy but paragraph styles would be simpler.
Bob
Playing with inlines are very tricky. Inlines will only take the space
between lines if the leading is set to auto. Above lines will work much
better here, because they always take up space between lines. If you set
the first baseline offset to fixed + the normal leading, you should get
what you need.
I said vertical lines because they will take up the vertical space but
not take up horizontal space...
--
Harbs
http://www.in-tools.com
16 paragraph styles or more is simpler? You're crazy! ;-)
Just to clarify terminology: Above line objects are what I call anchored
objects, are they not?
Not using based on.
Bob
.and it's necessary to disable ''skip by leading'' in Preferences if a
half-line gap is necessary.
Using based on is very difficult to keep track of. One lapse of attention in
changing a para style and you've changed your whole document, possibly
without noticing until it's too late (think keeps, H%26amp;J)
Actually, I'm not seeing how it would even work with based on.
Say I've got 8 paragraph styles. Sometimes anyone of these needs a blank
line or half-line above. I would still need to create 16 new styles.
I had Text Wrap %26gt; Skip by Leading turned on in Preferences. Now it works.
Great idea, Harbs!
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
%26gt; Ken, I skipped from CS2 to CS4. Maybe I missed something in CS3 that might
%26gt; help?
%26gt;
Nope. But Harbs idea should work in CS2.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Yes. Harbs idea is simpler than mine, because you don't have to fiddle with
textwrap settings.
So to summarize:
1. disable Skip by leading in preferences.
2. make sure the text frame you're working in has ''First Baseline'' set to
exact or leading.
2. create a line the length of the gap you wish.
3. cut and paste it at the beginning of the paragraph above which a gap
should appear.
4. Set it to an ''above line'' anchored object (or better, create an object
style to do this at a keystroke)
(If at some stage the leading changes, with CS4 you can do a search and
replace for the length of the line.)
I think that's pratical enough to be useable.
Here's a quote from ''The Complete Manual of Typography'' by James Felici,
published by Adobe Press:
''Dedicated typesetting systems typically had a command that let you add a
vertical space band of whatever width werever you wanted. Such a space band
was an independent entity, not tied to any paragraph. The software
recoginized it as a role-playing spacing element, and when that role wasn't
required-[as at the beginning of a page]-it would ignore the vrtical space
band. Unfortunately, this facility has yet to find its way into popular
desktop systems.''
But at least there's a workaround....
Thanks,
Ariel
Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com wrote:
%26gt; Great idea, Harbs!
%26gt;
Thanks.
I had inline graphics on my mind after making a complete fool of myself
on the Lassosoft list earlier this week... ;)
--
Harbs
http://www.in-tools.com
we've found the need for the same thing.. this is what we did! we created a small frame the width of a column and applied the ''Jump Object'' settings to it in text wrap, then i saved it to our library so we can insert it were ever we want to nudge or space between text or paragraphs.. you could make several and label them in the library for the spacing you need ''half line, full line, etc.''.. nice thing is if i need more or less space it's as simple as grabing the bottom edge of the frame and moving up or down.. i'm sure you can tweak the settings to make it more suited to your needs but this has been a quick lifesaver for us! as well with jump object set you could just draw a new frame were its needed when it's needed.. No styles to deal with! and it doesn't seem to have any negative affects that we've noticed..
~hope it helps..
Hi Ariel,
Wow. I think it'd be far easier to either a.) set a paragraph rule above with a stroke of ''none'' and Keep In Frame turned on, or b.) apply a character style with a leading value equal to the leading + space above to the first character in the paragraph. Either one could be made part of a style variant for the heading, and either one has to be easier than using an inline/anchored frame. It would be even easier to script the application/removal of this extra space.
re: ''Dedicated typesetting systems typically had a command that let you add a vertical space band of whatever width werever you wanted. Such a space band was an independent entity, not tied to any paragraph. The software recoginized it as a role-playing spacing element, and when that role wasn't required-[as at the beginning of a page]-it would ignore the vertical space band. Unfortunately, this facility has yet to find its way into popular desktop systems.''
Er, that's exactly how InDesign handles Space Before, except in that it's associated with a paragraph.
Thanks,
Ole
Personally, I don't see the need for this at all. What's the difference if you go in manually and add space before to a selected paragraph if you know you'll always want it except at the top of a column or go through all of this rigmarole to do the same thing by adding a new element?
Ariel says he doesn't want a local override, but it seems to me that what he's doing amounts to the same thing, only harder to find and remove if the occasion should arise, and space before is VERY fast and easy to add.
Peter
The 'invisible rule set to keep in frame' approach is an excellent way of adding space that applies only at the top of a frame, or of forcing InDesign to respect the space before of a paragraph style even when it does appear at the top of a column (by matching the position of the rule to the top of the desired space before).
Dave
Oh. I've just reread Ariel's opening request and he seems to want exactly what space before already does.
Color me confused or jetlagged.
Dave
''Using based on is very difficult to keep track of. One lapse of attention in changing a para style and you've changed your whole document, possibly without noticing until it's too late (think keeps, H%26amp;J)''
Just keep all the styles that are based on each other together in individual folders. I probably had over 50 styles in my last document, but they're organized into about 15 folders. Makes it easy to see what's changing. The alternative sounds more difficult to me, though I plan to use that invisible rule idea to add space at the top of a column for where the space-before doesn't work (good idea for that -- I sometimes encounter that as a problem).
Thanks, Phyllis
I have long wished there would be an option to have the paragraph style
panel viewed as a tree view where you could see which styles were based
on what. I suppose you could use folders, but it can be a little messy
if you have many based ons, for example:
Style 10 based on 9, 9 based on 8, 8 based on 7, etc. You would have one
folder for each style.
A tree view would allow you to see it without actually having to ''do''
anything (IOW, it would just be a view instead of actually moving styles
into folders).
I think a tree view would be great. Have you filed a feature request?
Peter
Just wondering if anyone knows if there exists, in IDCS4, some sort of way
of creating vertical space between paragraphs that will not appear if the
paragraph happens to begin at the top of the page.
Obviously, until now I've been using paragraph styles. But some kind of
vertical space marker would be so much simpler. You could have one for a
half-line height, or a full-line height and just insert them as necessary.
If not, any workarounds except for paragraph styles?
Thanks,
Ariel
Win XPSP3, IDCS4ME
Optional vertical space marker in CS4?
When you say ''paragraph styles'' do you mean you want to aoid using any
paragraph formatting? Because if not, you could just manually add space
before.
And why are you trying to avoid using formatting?
Optional vertical space marker in CS4?
Hi Fred,
Yes I want to avoid using formatting.
Why?
Simple.
Let's say I've got 8 paragraph styles for various types of body text.
Sometimes, any one of these styles can need a full blank line before,
sometimes just a 1/2 blank line before.
If I were to create paragraph styles for each of these eventualities, that
would mean another 16 styles.
However, if there was a vertical space marker, I wouldn't need any extra
styles at all. It's much simpler.
Thanks,
Ariel
But that's what I was saying, you don't have to create paragraph styles,
just add the space before manually as local formatting.
I'm guessing you already know about Space Above (and Space Below), but I
don't understand why you don't want to use it.
As far as I can tell, CS4 has nothing for vertical spacing that CS3
doesn't have.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Ah, I see what you're both getting at.
The answer is that I want to avoid using local overrides.
Ken, I skipped from CS2 to CS4. Maybe I missed something in CS3 that might
help?
Hi Ariel,
I don't understand either why you don't want to use Space Before and
Space After, but you can get the effect that you want.
Just use (invisible) inline (or above line) vertical lines to add the
space. You'll have to use set leading and not Auto or not use ''Leading''
as your First Baseline Offset.
--
Harbs
http://www.in-tools.com
Hi Harbs,
Thanks for your suggestion. It looks interesting, but I'm not managing to
find a TextWrap setting that will accomplish this.
However, an anchored object off the end of the previous paragraph with text
wrap applied may do the trick failing something simpler.
(And as I mentioned previously, the point here is to avoid local overrides
if possible.)
Ariel
%26gt; Just use (invisible) inline (or above line) vertical lines to add the
%26gt; space. You'll have to use set leading and not Auto or not use ''Leading''
%26gt; as your First Baseline Offset.
I get the opposite of what Ariel wants. If I draw a vertical rule, cut
it and paste it at the front of a paragraph, it takes up no space
*except* at the top of a page.
Why vertical?
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
That is strange.
Nothing happens if it's at the top of the page for me, which is correct. But
for some reason if it's in the middle of the page it creates a one-line gap
below. Weird.
Okay, creating a 14.5pt square (=bodytext leading in this case), inserting
it as an anchored object at the end of the previous paragraph, adding
a -14.5 y offset, and setting textwrap to ''Jump object'' seems to work,
pending further experimentation (or a simpler method).
%26gt; or a simpler method
Perhaps I'm crazy but paragraph styles would be simpler.
Bob
Playing with inlines are very tricky. Inlines will only take the space
between lines if the leading is set to auto. Above lines will work much
better here, because they always take up space between lines. If you set
the first baseline offset to fixed + the normal leading, you should get
what you need.
I said vertical lines because they will take up the vertical space but
not take up horizontal space...
--
Harbs
http://www.in-tools.com
16 paragraph styles or more is simpler? You're crazy! ;-)
Just to clarify terminology: Above line objects are what I call anchored
objects, are they not?
Not using based on.
Bob
.and it's necessary to disable ''skip by leading'' in Preferences if a
half-line gap is necessary.
Using based on is very difficult to keep track of. One lapse of attention in
changing a para style and you've changed your whole document, possibly
without noticing until it's too late (think keeps, H%26amp;J)
Actually, I'm not seeing how it would even work with based on.
Say I've got 8 paragraph styles. Sometimes anyone of these needs a blank
line or half-line above. I would still need to create 16 new styles.
I had Text Wrap %26gt; Skip by Leading turned on in Preferences. Now it works.
Great idea, Harbs!
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
%26gt; Ken, I skipped from CS2 to CS4. Maybe I missed something in CS3 that might
%26gt; help?
%26gt;
Nope. But Harbs idea should work in CS2.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Yes. Harbs idea is simpler than mine, because you don't have to fiddle with
textwrap settings.
So to summarize:
1. disable Skip by leading in preferences.
2. make sure the text frame you're working in has ''First Baseline'' set to
exact or leading.
2. create a line the length of the gap you wish.
3. cut and paste it at the beginning of the paragraph above which a gap
should appear.
4. Set it to an ''above line'' anchored object (or better, create an object
style to do this at a keystroke)
(If at some stage the leading changes, with CS4 you can do a search and
replace for the length of the line.)
I think that's pratical enough to be useable.
Here's a quote from ''The Complete Manual of Typography'' by James Felici,
published by Adobe Press:
''Dedicated typesetting systems typically had a command that let you add a
vertical space band of whatever width werever you wanted. Such a space band
was an independent entity, not tied to any paragraph. The software
recoginized it as a role-playing spacing element, and when that role wasn't
required-[as at the beginning of a page]-it would ignore the vrtical space
band. Unfortunately, this facility has yet to find its way into popular
desktop systems.''
But at least there's a workaround....
Thanks,
Ariel
Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com wrote:
%26gt; Great idea, Harbs!
%26gt;
Thanks.
I had inline graphics on my mind after making a complete fool of myself
on the Lassosoft list earlier this week... ;)
--
Harbs
http://www.in-tools.com
we've found the need for the same thing.. this is what we did! we created a small frame the width of a column and applied the ''Jump Object'' settings to it in text wrap, then i saved it to our library so we can insert it were ever we want to nudge or space between text or paragraphs.. you could make several and label them in the library for the spacing you need ''half line, full line, etc.''.. nice thing is if i need more or less space it's as simple as grabing the bottom edge of the frame and moving up or down.. i'm sure you can tweak the settings to make it more suited to your needs but this has been a quick lifesaver for us! as well with jump object set you could just draw a new frame were its needed when it's needed.. No styles to deal with! and it doesn't seem to have any negative affects that we've noticed..
~hope it helps..
Hi Ariel,
Wow. I think it'd be far easier to either a.) set a paragraph rule above with a stroke of ''none'' and Keep In Frame turned on, or b.) apply a character style with a leading value equal to the leading + space above to the first character in the paragraph. Either one could be made part of a style variant for the heading, and either one has to be easier than using an inline/anchored frame. It would be even easier to script the application/removal of this extra space.
re: ''Dedicated typesetting systems typically had a command that let you add a vertical space band of whatever width werever you wanted. Such a space band was an independent entity, not tied to any paragraph. The software recoginized it as a role-playing spacing element, and when that role wasn't required-[as at the beginning of a page]-it would ignore the vertical space band. Unfortunately, this facility has yet to find its way into popular desktop systems.''
Er, that's exactly how InDesign handles Space Before, except in that it's associated with a paragraph.
Thanks,
Ole
Personally, I don't see the need for this at all. What's the difference if you go in manually and add space before to a selected paragraph if you know you'll always want it except at the top of a column or go through all of this rigmarole to do the same thing by adding a new element?
Ariel says he doesn't want a local override, but it seems to me that what he's doing amounts to the same thing, only harder to find and remove if the occasion should arise, and space before is VERY fast and easy to add.
Peter
The 'invisible rule set to keep in frame' approach is an excellent way of adding space that applies only at the top of a frame, or of forcing InDesign to respect the space before of a paragraph style even when it does appear at the top of a column (by matching the position of the rule to the top of the desired space before).
Dave
Oh. I've just reread Ariel's opening request and he seems to want exactly what space before already does.
Color me confused or jetlagged.
Dave
''Using based on is very difficult to keep track of. One lapse of attention in changing a para style and you've changed your whole document, possibly without noticing until it's too late (think keeps, H%26amp;J)''
Just keep all the styles that are based on each other together in individual folders. I probably had over 50 styles in my last document, but they're organized into about 15 folders. Makes it easy to see what's changing. The alternative sounds more difficult to me, though I plan to use that invisible rule idea to add space at the top of a column for where the space-before doesn't work (good idea for that -- I sometimes encounter that as a problem).
Thanks, Phyllis
I have long wished there would be an option to have the paragraph style
panel viewed as a tree view where you could see which styles were based
on what. I suppose you could use folders, but it can be a little messy
if you have many based ons, for example:
Style 10 based on 9, 9 based on 8, 8 based on 7, etc. You would have one
folder for each style.
A tree view would allow you to see it without actually having to ''do''
anything (IOW, it would just be a view instead of actually moving styles
into folders).
I think a tree view would be great. Have you filed a feature request?
Peter
InDesign CS2 Keystroke for bold not...
I'm currently using InDesign CS2 and Windows XP and the keystroke for bold (control+shift+b) is not working. However, the keystroke for italics (control+shift+i) does work. Any ideas on how to fix the bold keystroke?
If I need to reinstall my keyboard shortcuts, could you please tell me how to do that?
Thanks.
InDesign CS2 Keystroke for bold not...
Is there a bold font installed?
Bob
InDesign CS2 Keystroke for bold not...
Yes, I'm using Arial.
Are you able to choose bold from the dropdown menu?
Yes.
Is your Windows keyboard language set to English, or has it accidentally
switched to something else?
I checked and it is set to English (United States).
Edit %26gt; Keyboard shortcuts... and make sure that the shortcut is still in use (i.e. you haven't edited the set and saved and loaded it). If it is, it's probably time to replace your prefs.
Peter
Yes, the Apply Bold shortcut is still set to Default: Shift + Control + B.
So, could you tell me how to replace my prefs?
Thanks.
This link is to the directions for CS3. CS2 is identical if you don't want to back up the old ones and just use the keyboard combination, and a bit simpler if you do as both files are in the first directory mentioned in my comment.
http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/InDesign/5.0/help.html?content=WSa285fff53dea4f8 617383751001ea8cb3f-6d1e.html
Peter
Sorry. Forgot to put in the link. :)
Thanks, Peter! I'll give it a try.
If I need to reinstall my keyboard shortcuts, could you please tell me how to do that?
Thanks.
InDesign CS2 Keystroke for bold not...
Is there a bold font installed?
Bob
InDesign CS2 Keystroke for bold not...
Yes, I'm using Arial.
Are you able to choose bold from the dropdown menu?
Yes.
Is your Windows keyboard language set to English, or has it accidentally
switched to something else?
I checked and it is set to English (United States).
Edit %26gt; Keyboard shortcuts... and make sure that the shortcut is still in use (i.e. you haven't edited the set and saved and loaded it). If it is, it's probably time to replace your prefs.
Peter
Yes, the Apply Bold shortcut is still set to Default: Shift + Control + B.
So, could you tell me how to replace my prefs?
Thanks.
This link is to the directions for CS3. CS2 is identical if you don't want to back up the old ones and just use the keyboard combination, and a bit simpler if you do as both files are in the first directory mentioned in my comment.
http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/InDesign/5.0/help.html?content=WSa285fff53dea4f8 617383751001ea8cb3f-6d1e.html
Peter
Sorry. Forgot to put in the link. :)
Thanks, Peter! I'll give it a try.
Rearranging pages replaces changed...
I have a big problem.
I am using InDesign CS on Windows XP (get the tech specs out of the way first) to make a document. In my Master Pages, some of the objects are permanent, and some are intended as place holders, such as the text box for each page's content text. These place holders, I then ctrl-shift-click on within the document, overriding them in order to update them with the content specific to that page. So far, so good....
The problem comes when I try to rearrange pages in the Pages palette. As soon as I move any page from one spot in the layout to another (for instance, taking page 7 and moving it to be between what are currently pages 4 and 5), InDesign resets the Master objects for all of the pages that got shifted as a result of the page move. So, let's say that page 6's Master had a place holder text box that said ''text goes here'', and I had overridden the text box to type in page 6's content. If page 6 gets moved to a different position in the pages layout, then suddenly, the text box with my new text is still on the page, but the original Master text box (''text goes here'') is back as well!
Now, I realize that I'm probably just missing an obvious setting somewhere (like ''Reapply Master On Page Move'', or something like that), so if anyone could PLEASE tell me where that setting is, I would be incredibly grateful, since this problem is kind of putting a huge crimp in my ability to finish my project. Thanks.
Rearranging pages replaces changed...
This is really expected behavior. Master pages are best used for things that will appear on multiple pages in the same position (as you are doing), but when you start to use, and override, placeholders you introduce the problem of re-creating master items any time the master page is changed or reassigned, as when pages are shuffled.
My personal recommendation is to NEVER use placeholders on pages you think might move to the other side of a spread. In fact, most of the time placeholder text frames (and even image frames) are more of a hindrance than a help. Properly setup guides are much more useful.
Unlike Quark, which I'm guessing may be what you're used to, you don't need a pre-existing frame to place any sort of content in InDesign. New frames are created on the fly if there isn't one there already (and sometimes even if there is, but we'll get there), and how those on-the-fly frames are created is entirely predictable, if not controllable.
If you want to use a placeholder on the master page, most times there is no need to manually override onto the page. The exceptions would be if the frame already has content in it or you want to paste text instead of placing it. Simply hovering over an empty master frame with the loaded ''place gun'' cursor will put that content into the frame and override it in one step (and this is somewhat important for auto-flowing text across multiple frames -- if you override first, you detach the frame from the thread). You can place into non-master frames the same way.
If you aren't using an existing frame, on-the-fly behavior depends on the type of object and what you do with the mouse. For any object type, clicking and dragging defines the frame boundaries. In CS4 dragging an image frame keeps the frame in the same aspect as the image, and scales the image to fit, which I happen to like, but there are a few who don't, so they need to draw their frames first. A simple click for a graphical object will draw the frame with the upper left corner at the spot you clicked, and the frame will be the size necessary to hold the object at ''100%'' scale.
Text works a little differently, and this is where margin and column guides come into play. As above, you can place into an existing frame or drag one to suit, but if you just click on the page somewhere InDesign will draw a frame that starts with its top edge at the point you click, but the frame will fill the width of the current column guides and extend to the bottom margin guide. If you hold shift to autoflow a long bit of text, subsequent frames will start at the top margin guide, and ID will add frames across a multi-column page before adding a new one if necessary.
New pages are added based on the master of the last page in the thread that exists at the time the page is created, so if you have master frames on both sides of a spread, but they are not threaded together, you'll see blank pages created and your text will jump to the next page that has a frame in the right spot (hard to visualize, but you'll recognize the problem instantly when it happens).
Essentially, this means that there is almost no reason whatever to put a text frame on a master page unless it need to be there to hold repetitive text of some sort. If you've overridden one of these master frames and then try to auto-flow into it, it's no longer threaded into the other frames (if it ever was), and InDesign is going to create the new frames based on the rules for filling column guides (which may or may not look like your master scheme), but more importantly, the other master frames will not be used and are still lurking in the background.
The big problem with this is if you expect some edit on the master page to ripple through to the live pages you will be very surprised when it doesn't (any attribute you don't change on an overridden master frame remains linked to the master, so you can change the shape or position of the frame on the master page and the same change will happen on the live page if all you did was put some content into it).
Which brings us to Layout Adjustment, and again the importance of proper guides. Frames that touch guides are pretty reliably moved or resized when layout adjustment is enabled before you do something like change the page margins.
Hope you managed to get through all of this and found it helpful.
Peter
Rearranging pages replaces changed...
Phew! Okay, I'm a little rusty (and yes, I'm coming from Quark...through no fault of my own), so please help spell it out for me. If I want text always to appear within the same area on each page (so I don't want to have to recreate the text box to size every single time), but I want the text itself to be different, then which of the multiple methods you listed should I be using?
Thanks for the (clearly very knowledgeable) help.
Use Autoflow. Delete all your pages except the first two (you're going
to lose any frames you've drawn there), delete the placeholder frames
from the master page, delete all the frames on the second page, go to
the first page, press the ''out'' port button at the bottom right, go to
the second page and Shift-click the loaded cursor at the top left margin
corner.
This should autoflow new, live frames in new pages to the end of the
text flow.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
I think we need some more detail about what you are doing.
Is this isolated text on each page, rather than a continuous story? If so, then a placeholder frame might make sense on the master page. When I do that, I usually put in some dummy text, too so I can see it. But then you'll continue to have problems with swapping masters when you repaginate.
Frankly, I don't think there's really a GOOD way to deal with that situation, though you might want to read about ''snippets'' and libraries in the help files. In theory you could make and format a frame in the position you need and save it in a library or snippet, and when you place it back into a document you should have the option of putting it where you drop it or having it maintain its original position on the page. Edit: Using the library or snippet route takes the frame off the master page and requires you place it on each page.
If this is running text, get rid of any master frames related to it and be sure your margin guides are set so a frame of the correct size you want to use completely fills them. You can mirror the margins if you like and want to use a different margin inside and outside. If you do this, be sure to enable Layout Adjustment in the Layout menu.
At this point, Ken's suggestion is probably the easiest way to get things back on track.
Peter
Yeah, Peter, I think that the confusion here is that the text on each page is isolated, rather than being a continuous, pretyped story. Instead, this is more of a workbook, but still the text is going into the same space on each page.
The placeholder frame with dummy text (in appropriate header and body formats on separate lines) that you describe is exactly what I was going for, and the repagination problem is exactly what I'm facing. I guess that I'll just put blank text frames into the Master Pages, then override them to fill them in on each page. That way, repagination, at worst, will place an extra blank frame behind the active one. Oh well.
Personally, I don't understand why you're allowed to override Master objects if they're going to try to replace themselves upon page rearrangement.
Anyway, thanks to both of you for your help.
CS4 has a new feature that will add pages as you type. CS has no such
feature. You have to make the pages, then make the frames on the pages.
I think I would want to type the material first, then format it into
pages after it's been typed. I would thread all my frames together,
using Keeps or frame breaks to force text to new pages.
I didn't know that rearranging pages reasserts master items, but this is
just another one of the many reasons I avoid overriding master items (in
fact, why I avoid overrides in general).
At this point, I think your master page placeholder frames are doing you
no good. Remove them, and they should get removed from all pages on
which they have not been overridden (including the pages on which they
have been overridden and then reasserted).
Why are you rearranging pages?
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
I'd make a blank text box on the master.
Then I'd load a cursor with text and click over that text box on the
live page to create a new text box filled with text not linked to the
master box.
Simon,
Are you making fun of me?
A loaded cursor over a blank master frame will use the master frame (unless you happen to click on a guide -- don't go there), not create a new, unlinked frame.
Peter
Peter,
I would never make fun of you. Never.
But it works for me. The text takes the attributes of the text box on
the master but is divorced from it. Switch left and right pages, it
stays put. Shuffle pages, it stays put. Am I not understanding what was
asked for?
Humbly yours and not jesting.
I bet your frame is sized to the page margins or column guides.
If you move that frame out of the way for a second, after you put text into it I also bet you can't Ctrl + Shift click to release the master frame on your page, because it's already released and has your new text in it.
Undo the move, and rearrange the pages so they swap sides. If the margins are uneven, the frame should jump to match the margins.
Now here's the tricky part. Make a new three-page document. Start with a master text frame on each page of a two page spread, and be sure the left is threaded to the right (should work if you just check the master text frame box).
Go to page 1 and either release the frame and type or place some external text (not more than will fit in the frame).
Click a text insertion point into the frame on the right master page and type something, like ''sample text'' so it will show up on the pages. Note that even though you clicked on the right-hand page the text is at the top of the left hand frame because they are threaded.
Go to page 1. There is no master text showing because it is on the left master page and page 1 is a right page. Now drag page 2 so it swaps positions with page 1. You should see the text in the master frame behind the text you put originally on page 1 which is now page 2, which shows that the master items are re-asserted on the page swap. Interestingly, if you now swap pages 2 %26amp; 3, there will again be no master frame behind your overridden one.
Peter
I haven't actually checked this, but I would guess you'd see pretty much the same thing if the master frames are not threaded, i.e. when you swap left to right, whichever side is not original is going to pick up all the master elements, including any that were originally overridden.
What seems to be happening is that ID is keeping track of what has and hasn't been overridden on a left-or-right basis, but I don't claim to know anything about the file structure or coding.
Peter
It's a diddy little text box miles from any guides or margins.
And after I move the new text box on the live I can still see the
outline of the master text box on the master page.
But now I've got to go walk to dog and meet the wife. Have a great weekend.
Well that's pretty odd.
You are talking about using a loaded cursor, right, as in external text or picked up overset text, not a regular text cursor as in paste copied text or new text to be typed?
The only way I can make a loaded cursor NOT use a master frame is if there's already content in it or I click exactly on the top or left margin guide, or on a ruler guide that crosses the frame (which trips up a lot of students and isn't well documented anywhere I've seen), or I click outside it entirely, of course.
Every time there's a discussion on InDesign's master page behavior, there's always a lot of confusion. InDesign's master page usage is anything but intuitive. Master objects (ncluding text frames) are extremely under-tapped in their potential. I've been working on a product which tries to fix this... Here's an excerpt from a manual of a soon-to-be released product which (attempts) to explain how master text frames behave:
%26gt;When the side of a page changes in CS3 and later, an overridden master frame is not actually detached from the master page. It is attached to a master item which doesnt really exist. You can look at it as if every page has all the items of an entire master spread on it, but only the items which corresponds to the current page side are actually visible. When the page side changes, even overridden master items (even though they are now visible) are still attached to the invisible master page items. This can result in doubling of master items. If for example a recto page with overridden recto master items becomes a verso page, the overridden recto items will be visible as well as the non-overridden verso ones.
and here's an excerpt on how we go about fixing InDesign's behavior...
%26gt;Master Threads are a novel concept, so it might take a bit of time to get it, but the potential of using Master Threads is enormous, so its well worth the time spent learning what Master Threads are, and how they can be used.
%26gt;Simply put, Master Threads are Master Text Frames which are assigned to a specific thread of text frames.
Normally, Master Text Frames can be threaded, but only with other text frames on the same master spread. It is not possible to thread master text frames from Master A to Master B. Therefore if flowing text, and the master page applied changes fro page to page, there is no way of dictating which text frames, the text will occupy. Additionally, when a master page is changed and a new one is applied, any Master Text Frames will be detached from the master page. Master Text Frames in InDesign can be described as static objects, that once overridden from the master page have very little to do with the original object they started out being.
%26gt;Master Threads were created to overcome these shortcomings. When Master Text Frames are designated as being Master Thread Frames, they have the ability of being threaded across master pages, so a text frame (or thread of frames)on Master A can be associated with a text frame (or thread of frames) on Master B. Additionally, Master Thread Frames can be described as dynamic as opposed to the standard static Master Text Frames. These two properties of Master Threads open up exciting new possibilities.
%26gt;Lets explain some more. Master Threads are created by naming a master text frame or thread of master text frames. The name can be anything, but once you name the text frames, they are defined as belonging to a Master Thread of the name you chose. It is only possible to use a specific name once per master spread. Text frames which have the same Master Thread name on different spreads will be defined as belonging to the same Master Thread. In this way, it is possible to create virtual threading between different master pages. You can create an infinite number of Master Threads in each document, which enables parallel flowing of stories (i.e. you can have two separate stories which flow side by side, or top and bottom, etc.).
But What do They do?
%26gt;Once Master Threads are properly set up, they can be used to intelligently flow text. When used in conjunction with Master Page Links, Master Threads can change the positioning and flow of text based as master pages switch between different ones. When the text is flowed and master pages are switched to match the linked paragraph styles, the text will flow into the corresponding text frames on the new master page which correspond to the text frames on the previous master page. This correlation is created by naming both sets of text frames with the same Master Thread name.
%26gt;This combination of master page linking and Master Threads enable the complete automatic flowing of entire books even where master pages must change to reflect the text and even where chapter openers must be placed in different locations than body text. This is true even if chapter openers are set up as single column text while the body text is set up as two columns.
%26gt;In addition to the automatic layout made possible while initially flowing text, Master Threads can transform master pages from being simply a starting point for layout into true dynamic page templates. When text frames are defined as Master Threads, the text contained by them will automatically reflow into new text frames any time the master page changes or the page side changes. This means, you can drastically change the layout of your text by simply applying a different master page. With one click of the mouse, or by dragging a master page on a local page in your pages panel, you can rearrange your layout! No more manually reflowing text when you see a need to change the master pageeven if your text does not fit the page margins!
Harbs,
This sounds fantastic! How soon do you expect to release it?
Oh, and was I at least close in my analysis?
Peter
%26gt;This sounds fantastic! How soon do you expect to release it?
Pretty soon... (I hope!) If you want to try it out, drop me a line. There's
lots of other features besides what I quoted here...
%26gt;Oh, and was I at least close in my analysis?
You mean in post #10?
I'm not sure what you meant... ;)
The behavior is very hard to explain. As I
tried ;) to explain above, the left and right master page items are separate entities. When you override a master page item on the left hand page, the object is linked to the left hand master page item. This is true even when the page becomes a right hand one. It stays linked to a master page item, but a non-existent one! So, when the side changes, you see two objects: 1) the overridden left hand master object. 2) the non-overridden right hand one.
When the side goes back to being left hand, you will only see one object, because the left hand object was already overridden. Very, very confusing...
%26gt;You mean in post #10?
I think so.
Peter
I am using InDesign CS on Windows XP (get the tech specs out of the way first) to make a document. In my Master Pages, some of the objects are permanent, and some are intended as place holders, such as the text box for each page's content text. These place holders, I then ctrl-shift-click on within the document, overriding them in order to update them with the content specific to that page. So far, so good....
The problem comes when I try to rearrange pages in the Pages palette. As soon as I move any page from one spot in the layout to another (for instance, taking page 7 and moving it to be between what are currently pages 4 and 5), InDesign resets the Master objects for all of the pages that got shifted as a result of the page move. So, let's say that page 6's Master had a place holder text box that said ''text goes here'', and I had overridden the text box to type in page 6's content. If page 6 gets moved to a different position in the pages layout, then suddenly, the text box with my new text is still on the page, but the original Master text box (''text goes here'') is back as well!
Now, I realize that I'm probably just missing an obvious setting somewhere (like ''Reapply Master On Page Move'', or something like that), so if anyone could PLEASE tell me where that setting is, I would be incredibly grateful, since this problem is kind of putting a huge crimp in my ability to finish my project. Thanks.
Rearranging pages replaces changed...
This is really expected behavior. Master pages are best used for things that will appear on multiple pages in the same position (as you are doing), but when you start to use, and override, placeholders you introduce the problem of re-creating master items any time the master page is changed or reassigned, as when pages are shuffled.
My personal recommendation is to NEVER use placeholders on pages you think might move to the other side of a spread. In fact, most of the time placeholder text frames (and even image frames) are more of a hindrance than a help. Properly setup guides are much more useful.
Unlike Quark, which I'm guessing may be what you're used to, you don't need a pre-existing frame to place any sort of content in InDesign. New frames are created on the fly if there isn't one there already (and sometimes even if there is, but we'll get there), and how those on-the-fly frames are created is entirely predictable, if not controllable.
If you want to use a placeholder on the master page, most times there is no need to manually override onto the page. The exceptions would be if the frame already has content in it or you want to paste text instead of placing it. Simply hovering over an empty master frame with the loaded ''place gun'' cursor will put that content into the frame and override it in one step (and this is somewhat important for auto-flowing text across multiple frames -- if you override first, you detach the frame from the thread). You can place into non-master frames the same way.
If you aren't using an existing frame, on-the-fly behavior depends on the type of object and what you do with the mouse. For any object type, clicking and dragging defines the frame boundaries. In CS4 dragging an image frame keeps the frame in the same aspect as the image, and scales the image to fit, which I happen to like, but there are a few who don't, so they need to draw their frames first. A simple click for a graphical object will draw the frame with the upper left corner at the spot you clicked, and the frame will be the size necessary to hold the object at ''100%'' scale.
Text works a little differently, and this is where margin and column guides come into play. As above, you can place into an existing frame or drag one to suit, but if you just click on the page somewhere InDesign will draw a frame that starts with its top edge at the point you click, but the frame will fill the width of the current column guides and extend to the bottom margin guide. If you hold shift to autoflow a long bit of text, subsequent frames will start at the top margin guide, and ID will add frames across a multi-column page before adding a new one if necessary.
New pages are added based on the master of the last page in the thread that exists at the time the page is created, so if you have master frames on both sides of a spread, but they are not threaded together, you'll see blank pages created and your text will jump to the next page that has a frame in the right spot (hard to visualize, but you'll recognize the problem instantly when it happens).
Essentially, this means that there is almost no reason whatever to put a text frame on a master page unless it need to be there to hold repetitive text of some sort. If you've overridden one of these master frames and then try to auto-flow into it, it's no longer threaded into the other frames (if it ever was), and InDesign is going to create the new frames based on the rules for filling column guides (which may or may not look like your master scheme), but more importantly, the other master frames will not be used and are still lurking in the background.
The big problem with this is if you expect some edit on the master page to ripple through to the live pages you will be very surprised when it doesn't (any attribute you don't change on an overridden master frame remains linked to the master, so you can change the shape or position of the frame on the master page and the same change will happen on the live page if all you did was put some content into it).
Which brings us to Layout Adjustment, and again the importance of proper guides. Frames that touch guides are pretty reliably moved or resized when layout adjustment is enabled before you do something like change the page margins.
Hope you managed to get through all of this and found it helpful.
Peter
Rearranging pages replaces changed...
Phew! Okay, I'm a little rusty (and yes, I'm coming from Quark...through no fault of my own), so please help spell it out for me. If I want text always to appear within the same area on each page (so I don't want to have to recreate the text box to size every single time), but I want the text itself to be different, then which of the multiple methods you listed should I be using?
Thanks for the (clearly very knowledgeable) help.
Use Autoflow. Delete all your pages except the first two (you're going
to lose any frames you've drawn there), delete the placeholder frames
from the master page, delete all the frames on the second page, go to
the first page, press the ''out'' port button at the bottom right, go to
the second page and Shift-click the loaded cursor at the top left margin
corner.
This should autoflow new, live frames in new pages to the end of the
text flow.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
I think we need some more detail about what you are doing.
Is this isolated text on each page, rather than a continuous story? If so, then a placeholder frame might make sense on the master page. When I do that, I usually put in some dummy text, too so I can see it. But then you'll continue to have problems with swapping masters when you repaginate.
Frankly, I don't think there's really a GOOD way to deal with that situation, though you might want to read about ''snippets'' and libraries in the help files. In theory you could make and format a frame in the position you need and save it in a library or snippet, and when you place it back into a document you should have the option of putting it where you drop it or having it maintain its original position on the page. Edit: Using the library or snippet route takes the frame off the master page and requires you place it on each page.
If this is running text, get rid of any master frames related to it and be sure your margin guides are set so a frame of the correct size you want to use completely fills them. You can mirror the margins if you like and want to use a different margin inside and outside. If you do this, be sure to enable Layout Adjustment in the Layout menu.
At this point, Ken's suggestion is probably the easiest way to get things back on track.
Peter
Yeah, Peter, I think that the confusion here is that the text on each page is isolated, rather than being a continuous, pretyped story. Instead, this is more of a workbook, but still the text is going into the same space on each page.
The placeholder frame with dummy text (in appropriate header and body formats on separate lines) that you describe is exactly what I was going for, and the repagination problem is exactly what I'm facing. I guess that I'll just put blank text frames into the Master Pages, then override them to fill them in on each page. That way, repagination, at worst, will place an extra blank frame behind the active one. Oh well.
Personally, I don't understand why you're allowed to override Master objects if they're going to try to replace themselves upon page rearrangement.
Anyway, thanks to both of you for your help.
CS4 has a new feature that will add pages as you type. CS has no such
feature. You have to make the pages, then make the frames on the pages.
I think I would want to type the material first, then format it into
pages after it's been typed. I would thread all my frames together,
using Keeps or frame breaks to force text to new pages.
I didn't know that rearranging pages reasserts master items, but this is
just another one of the many reasons I avoid overriding master items (in
fact, why I avoid overrides in general).
At this point, I think your master page placeholder frames are doing you
no good. Remove them, and they should get removed from all pages on
which they have not been overridden (including the pages on which they
have been overridden and then reasserted).
Why are you rearranging pages?
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
I'd make a blank text box on the master.
Then I'd load a cursor with text and click over that text box on the
live page to create a new text box filled with text not linked to the
master box.
Simon,
Are you making fun of me?
A loaded cursor over a blank master frame will use the master frame (unless you happen to click on a guide -- don't go there), not create a new, unlinked frame.
Peter
Peter,
I would never make fun of you. Never.
But it works for me. The text takes the attributes of the text box on
the master but is divorced from it. Switch left and right pages, it
stays put. Shuffle pages, it stays put. Am I not understanding what was
asked for?
Humbly yours and not jesting.
I bet your frame is sized to the page margins or column guides.
If you move that frame out of the way for a second, after you put text into it I also bet you can't Ctrl + Shift click to release the master frame on your page, because it's already released and has your new text in it.
Undo the move, and rearrange the pages so they swap sides. If the margins are uneven, the frame should jump to match the margins.
Now here's the tricky part. Make a new three-page document. Start with a master text frame on each page of a two page spread, and be sure the left is threaded to the right (should work if you just check the master text frame box).
Go to page 1 and either release the frame and type or place some external text (not more than will fit in the frame).
Click a text insertion point into the frame on the right master page and type something, like ''sample text'' so it will show up on the pages. Note that even though you clicked on the right-hand page the text is at the top of the left hand frame because they are threaded.
Go to page 1. There is no master text showing because it is on the left master page and page 1 is a right page. Now drag page 2 so it swaps positions with page 1. You should see the text in the master frame behind the text you put originally on page 1 which is now page 2, which shows that the master items are re-asserted on the page swap. Interestingly, if you now swap pages 2 %26amp; 3, there will again be no master frame behind your overridden one.
Peter
I haven't actually checked this, but I would guess you'd see pretty much the same thing if the master frames are not threaded, i.e. when you swap left to right, whichever side is not original is going to pick up all the master elements, including any that were originally overridden.
What seems to be happening is that ID is keeping track of what has and hasn't been overridden on a left-or-right basis, but I don't claim to know anything about the file structure or coding.
Peter
It's a diddy little text box miles from any guides or margins.
And after I move the new text box on the live I can still see the
outline of the master text box on the master page.
But now I've got to go walk to dog and meet the wife. Have a great weekend.
Well that's pretty odd.
You are talking about using a loaded cursor, right, as in external text or picked up overset text, not a regular text cursor as in paste copied text or new text to be typed?
The only way I can make a loaded cursor NOT use a master frame is if there's already content in it or I click exactly on the top or left margin guide, or on a ruler guide that crosses the frame (which trips up a lot of students and isn't well documented anywhere I've seen), or I click outside it entirely, of course.
Every time there's a discussion on InDesign's master page behavior, there's always a lot of confusion. InDesign's master page usage is anything but intuitive. Master objects (ncluding text frames) are extremely under-tapped in their potential. I've been working on a product which tries to fix this... Here's an excerpt from a manual of a soon-to-be released product which (attempts) to explain how master text frames behave:
%26gt;When the side of a page changes in CS3 and later, an overridden master frame is not actually detached from the master page. It is attached to a master item which doesnt really exist. You can look at it as if every page has all the items of an entire master spread on it, but only the items which corresponds to the current page side are actually visible. When the page side changes, even overridden master items (even though they are now visible) are still attached to the invisible master page items. This can result in doubling of master items. If for example a recto page with overridden recto master items becomes a verso page, the overridden recto items will be visible as well as the non-overridden verso ones.
and here's an excerpt on how we go about fixing InDesign's behavior...
%26gt;Master Threads are a novel concept, so it might take a bit of time to get it, but the potential of using Master Threads is enormous, so its well worth the time spent learning what Master Threads are, and how they can be used.
%26gt;Simply put, Master Threads are Master Text Frames which are assigned to a specific thread of text frames.
Normally, Master Text Frames can be threaded, but only with other text frames on the same master spread. It is not possible to thread master text frames from Master A to Master B. Therefore if flowing text, and the master page applied changes fro page to page, there is no way of dictating which text frames, the text will occupy. Additionally, when a master page is changed and a new one is applied, any Master Text Frames will be detached from the master page. Master Text Frames in InDesign can be described as static objects, that once overridden from the master page have very little to do with the original object they started out being.
%26gt;Master Threads were created to overcome these shortcomings. When Master Text Frames are designated as being Master Thread Frames, they have the ability of being threaded across master pages, so a text frame (or thread of frames)on Master A can be associated with a text frame (or thread of frames) on Master B. Additionally, Master Thread Frames can be described as dynamic as opposed to the standard static Master Text Frames. These two properties of Master Threads open up exciting new possibilities.
%26gt;Lets explain some more. Master Threads are created by naming a master text frame or thread of master text frames. The name can be anything, but once you name the text frames, they are defined as belonging to a Master Thread of the name you chose. It is only possible to use a specific name once per master spread. Text frames which have the same Master Thread name on different spreads will be defined as belonging to the same Master Thread. In this way, it is possible to create virtual threading between different master pages. You can create an infinite number of Master Threads in each document, which enables parallel flowing of stories (i.e. you can have two separate stories which flow side by side, or top and bottom, etc.).
But What do They do?
%26gt;Once Master Threads are properly set up, they can be used to intelligently flow text. When used in conjunction with Master Page Links, Master Threads can change the positioning and flow of text based as master pages switch between different ones. When the text is flowed and master pages are switched to match the linked paragraph styles, the text will flow into the corresponding text frames on the new master page which correspond to the text frames on the previous master page. This correlation is created by naming both sets of text frames with the same Master Thread name.
%26gt;This combination of master page linking and Master Threads enable the complete automatic flowing of entire books even where master pages must change to reflect the text and even where chapter openers must be placed in different locations than body text. This is true even if chapter openers are set up as single column text while the body text is set up as two columns.
%26gt;In addition to the automatic layout made possible while initially flowing text, Master Threads can transform master pages from being simply a starting point for layout into true dynamic page templates. When text frames are defined as Master Threads, the text contained by them will automatically reflow into new text frames any time the master page changes or the page side changes. This means, you can drastically change the layout of your text by simply applying a different master page. With one click of the mouse, or by dragging a master page on a local page in your pages panel, you can rearrange your layout! No more manually reflowing text when you see a need to change the master pageeven if your text does not fit the page margins!
Harbs,
This sounds fantastic! How soon do you expect to release it?
Oh, and was I at least close in my analysis?
Peter
%26gt;This sounds fantastic! How soon do you expect to release it?
Pretty soon... (I hope!) If you want to try it out, drop me a line. There's
lots of other features besides what I quoted here...
%26gt;Oh, and was I at least close in my analysis?
You mean in post #10?
I'm not sure what you meant... ;)
The behavior is very hard to explain. As I
tried ;) to explain above, the left and right master page items are separate entities. When you override a master page item on the left hand page, the object is linked to the left hand master page item. This is true even when the page becomes a right hand one. It stays linked to a master page item, but a non-existent one! So, when the side changes, you see two objects: 1) the overridden left hand master object. 2) the non-overridden right hand one.
When the side goes back to being left hand, you will only see one object, because the left hand object was already overridden. Very, very confusing...
%26gt;You mean in post #10?
I think so.
Peter
Automatic text outlines
Hi,
when designing a brochure, is it possible to create outlines from all text, within a brochure at ones, instead of creating outlines every page separate.
When delivering a brochure to press it isn't necessary to create outlines from text, u can include fonts in a PDF file, I know. But to prevent unexpected errors when printing, u usually do create outlines from every text box.
I hope that this feature is included in InDesign CS3.
Thanks in advance!
Robert
Automatic text outlines
%26gt; But to prevent unexpected errors when printing, u usually do create outlines from every text box.
That is totally incorrect. If your printer can't handle files with
real text, it's time to find someone who can.
Bob
Automatic text outlines
Bob,
u are right. All printers can handle real text!
My question still stands, is there a way to make outlines from text in ID from a multiple page document at ones?
Robert
Not without a script.
Bob
http://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way.php
when designing a brochure, is it possible to create outlines from all text, within a brochure at ones, instead of creating outlines every page separate.
When delivering a brochure to press it isn't necessary to create outlines from text, u can include fonts in a PDF file, I know. But to prevent unexpected errors when printing, u usually do create outlines from every text box.
I hope that this feature is included in InDesign CS3.
Thanks in advance!
Robert
Automatic text outlines
%26gt; But to prevent unexpected errors when printing, u usually do create outlines from every text box.
That is totally incorrect. If your printer can't handle files with
real text, it's time to find someone who can.
Bob
Automatic text outlines
Bob,
u are right. All printers can handle real text!
My question still stands, is there a way to make outlines from text in ID from a multiple page document at ones?
Robert
Not without a script.
Bob
http://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way.php
Bob -
I disagree with your comment regarding the fact that all printers should be able to work with fonts. In particular, when using complex, or non-'Roman' fonts such as Arabic, often fonts are read incorrectly in RIP or even PDF, causing 'boxes' or misplaced text and can seriously jeopardise the print job, so it is recommended to always convert to outlines in such cases.
You can disagree all you want, but this the year 2009. Nobody with a modern workflow would every recommend converting all text to outlines no matter what language it is.
Bob
Sorry, but have you ever worked with Arabic?
No but there are plenty of people here who do and I've yet to see any one of them recommend something as archaic as converting it to outlines.
Bob
Any PDF file with properly embedded fonts should render and print properly (at least as far as text is concerned), regardless of whether the text is in English, French, Russian, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Arabic, Hebrew, Farsi, Kuzbanian, whatever when printed via a RIP conforming to either the PDF language specifications or the PostScript language specifications. The RIP is totally unaware of what ''language'' the text is in or that the font represents!
There is no reason whatsoever to turn text into outlines unless you are dealing with a print service provider with (1) a coal-powered, steam-driven RIP from the previous century, (2) a Neanderthal attitude or educational level, (3) very obsolete workflows (such as using QuarkXPress as an imposition tool or ancient prepress workflow components incompatible with this century's standards), or (4) a combination of the above.
A demand by a printer or a client (if you are a designer for a print customer) for text converted to outlines is a sure sign of the likelihood of other problems as well. Run!聽聽
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
PS: Yes, I have worked with Arabic as well as those other languages (except for Kuzbanian) without any problems!
聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
I've had sign companies tell me they need outlines for their cutting plotters, but I suspect that falls into the ''(1) a coal-powered, steam-driven RIP from the previous century'' category.
Haha! Yes, Peter and Dov... I've a wonderful picture in my head, now, of a kind of Victorian wheel and cog setup...
In any case, thanks for all the feedback with regards to this point, and I certainly get your points as well! But I would like to illustrate my point with an example.
Dov, I agree, of course (who in their right mind wouldn't!?) that generally if everyone has progressed suitably into the current century, that any font should read absolutely fine in any rip, and any PDF file with properly embedded fonts should render and print. The fact of the matter is, however, that it is not always the case!
Leading on from this, I have uploaded an example of what can happen with some fonts... whether this is simply a badly designed font with bad hinting and so on, or something else, I don't know, but it is (meant to be!) a professionally designed font. And it is an unfortunately regular occurrence when using Arabic fonts in particular, I have found.
http://www.wildfiregraphic.net/files/arabic/WFDP9018UN-1.0_M-SUMMARY_p1.indd.pdf
The PDF was generated from InDesign CS3 Middle East version from a Post Script through Distiller. I have been working in Arabic for 10 years now and have constantly run into these sorts of problems, and I would say to be on the safe side, that it would always be safer to create outlines by using the transparency flattener!
One doesn't want to be responsible for an unreadable 220 page report, for example. I don't think that would go down all that well!
I look forward to comment and feedback!
Cheers - WildfirePro
your link isn't working.
Postscript and distiller also fall under the coal-powered, steam-driven category.
Even PDFs exported out of Microsoft Word don't use postscript, anymore.
If you don't want to be responsible for a 220 page report being unreadable find a reputable printer to produce the job. If the client insists on a luddite then make them aware that you can't and won't be held responsible.
Bob
I'm looking forward to seeing that PDF file, if we would be able to access it. I am getting a ''denied permissions'' error when clicking on your hyperlink.
Note that Adobe's recommended workflow is direct export of PDF from InDesign, not creating and distilling PostScript although for text purposes, this should not make a real difference.
One other thing which could very well be your problem is be ''embeddability'' of the fonts. If the Arabic fonts are either TrueType of OpenType (either flavour of OpenType - CFF or TrueType), they may be locked (via flags in the font file itself) against embedding in either PDF, PostScript, or EPS files. Adobe applications and Acrobat observe such restrictions when present in fonts that you use. And if your Distiller joboptions don't prescribe abortion of the PDF creation job when encountering either missing or non-embeddable fonts, you could readily end up with the problems of missing fonts in the resultant PDF file. Outlining text in your layout program obviously would ''get around'' such font embedding restrictions although for many fonts, per the EULA (End User License Agreement) of such fonts, use of either outlining or rasterization of the fonts to get around the embedding restriction is also prohibited!!! And hackery associated with transparency and flattening to accomplish such outlining or rasterization are in the same realm as manually performing such actions! (You don't want a non-kosher use of Arabic fonts, do you?)
You may ask of what use is a font that doesn't allow embedding in the output stream? Our (Adobe's) contention is that such fonts are like a ''roach motel'' in terms of usability. Check whether the fonts are restricted and if so, contact the font vendor to get fonts and a license that does permit embedding.
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
PS:聽 Remember that font is a four letter word beginning with an f.
Peter,
In all seriousness, the sign cutting issue is a valid one. In my day job as the spiritual venture capitalist for the Adobe PDF Print Engine, this issue has come up a few times with our OEM partners. Current RIPs feeding cutting plotters typically only accept a subset of PostScript, the vector stuff, for their operations (try visualizing halftoning such an operation :-) ). Conceivably, they could develop either a PostScript or PDF RIP that when encountering text would simply use the outlines as opposed to rasterizing same. But, alas, that doesn't yet seem to be the these work, at least yet! Similar issues come up with setting of cutting instructions for graphic arts packaging jobs.
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 - Dov
Hi Peter -
I have uploaded the file to a place where it can be accessed now! Please see below:
http://wildfiregraphic.net/client/UNISDR_ZIPS/WFDP9018UN-1.0_M-SUMMARY_p1.indd.p df
Sorry about that!
Bob - it is often the case that you have to work with a client-nominated printer, as I am sure you know, and while I agree it should be identified that one should not be held responsible, is it really necessary to be so rigid and risk incorrect output when it is really very simple to avoid potential error?
It is interesting that you say that using Distiller etcetera has gone the way of the dinosaurs. I would agree that it is definitely on the way out, and that the new Adobe PDF Print Engine is fast becoming the new(ish) standard (and definitely improves workflow and output), but currently, it is still phasing out, and I still know many firms that utilise the distilling method, if not all the time, but sometimes. In fact, while I will generally utilise the direct export myself, in this particular instance, I had to use the distill method due to an InDesign crash every time I tried exporting...
In any case, as far as I know, the first version of the APPE was launched in 2006, and Heidelberg started incorporating it in 2007. I don't even think the next gen version 2 has been released yet... correct me if I'm wrong!
CS4 is still pretty new, too, and in a time where people and companies are struggling to keep afloat, I am sure many people will be loathe to upgrade to newer software versions, which may also, more likely than not, involve new hardware upgrades too, so CS2/CS3 may hang about longer as a tool within the workflow environment than previous versions did when cash was flowing aplenty! I would imagine that this might mean that people may stick to their tried and tested methods for workflow and print-ready artwork production, but again, I may be wrong.
Cheers
I think the point is that there may be some specialized applications that would require font outlining, but they are far from mainstream printing, and a printer who asks you to outline the fonts in a newsletter or similar project, as a matter of course, is just out of touch with the modern world.
Hey there Dov -
Just read through your posts. Thanks again for the informative responses! But there are no restricitons on the font at all.
Furthermore, after I sorted out the InDesign crashing issue (which was due to client-provided dodgy EPS files), which, to remind, kept happening every time I tried exporting clean to PDF, the fonts embedded fine, with no 'squaring'.
I am guessing that is why Distilling is going the way of the dinosaurs??? Might anyone have an explanation for that?
Cheers - Nisa
This has nothing to do with the APPE. Exporting PDFs has been the standard since InDesign 2.0 (not CS2) was in early 2002. That's seven years ago. When Acrobat 8.1 came along even MS applications with the PDF plugin from Acrobat skipped postscript.
That said, like Dov I can't see where it should make that big a difference with text only. But the fact is converting text to outlines destroys the hinting and can have an adverse affect on the look of a document. I'm sorry but I still strongly disagree with you on this but I'm not going to continue this debate. Do as you wish.
Bob
Try this:
1. Export the PDF and set the subset to 0.
2. If you insist on distilling at least print to Adobe PDF and use the download PPD fonts option.
Bob
Bob -
Thanks for the response. I agree with you that in an ideal world outlines should NEVER have to be created! Also, I never actually use the 'text to outlines' option in InDesign, as you are correct... that does tend to muck things up rather.
The best method I have found is to use the transparency flattener, which keeps things nicely in place.
I have been using InDesign since its launch (when it was all bugged out!), so I am familiar with each and every stage of the software.But thanks for clearing up the APPE with me. I was clearly mistaken.
Cheers
''2. If you insist on distilling at least print to Adobe PDF and use the download PPD fonts option.''
I had tried that before, and got the linked result...
Spellcheck
Hi,
I'm not able access my Dutch spell check in InDesign, tried to load MC-Word dictionary into InDesign, but that didn't work.
Could anyone provide me a dutch dictionary witch I can load into InDesign (if there are any available...). It would be a great help!! Other suggestions are very welcome.
Thank's in advance.
Robert
Spellcheck
Most likely you have an English InDesign, defaulting to English language settings. Select the Dutch text and, using the Character panel, change its language to Dutch. If the Character panel does not show a language drop list, select ''Show Options'' in its tiny panel menu.
Alternatively, if you happened to use paragraph styles throughout your text, you can change the language in the Advanced Character Formats field in the Style definition dialogs.
You don't actually have to
i load
another language dictionary, as ID comes with several pre-installed -- although it
i is
possible to install 3rd party dictionaries. ID comes with a basic Dutch spell check, ''old style'' (ouwerwets) and ''2006 rules'' (superhip bij de tijd, maar swaffelen staat er niet in).
I'm not able access my Dutch spell check in InDesign, tried to load MC-Word dictionary into InDesign, but that didn't work.
Could anyone provide me a dutch dictionary witch I can load into InDesign (if there are any available...). It would be a great help!! Other suggestions are very welcome.
Thank's in advance.
Robert
Spellcheck
Most likely you have an English InDesign, defaulting to English language settings. Select the Dutch text and, using the Character panel, change its language to Dutch. If the Character panel does not show a language drop list, select ''Show Options'' in its tiny panel menu.
Alternatively, if you happened to use paragraph styles throughout your text, you can change the language in the Advanced Character Formats field in the Style definition dialogs.
You don't actually have to
i load
another language dictionary, as ID comes with several pre-installed -- although it
i is
possible to install 3rd party dictionaries. ID comes with a basic Dutch spell check, ''old style'' (ouwerwets) and ''2006 rules'' (superhip bij de tijd, maar swaffelen staat er niet in).
Viewing a swf-file from InDesign CS4 on...
Hi
When I produce a SWF-file from a brochure made in InDesign CS4 and I try to view it with Flash player 10, it doesn't show the buttons and page transitions and search area?.
Can anybody tell me why? - or how to set it up?.
I want it to work as an e-page like this one:
http://www.e-pages.dk/sika/7/
Best regards,
Henrik L眉neborg
Sika Danmark A/S
E-mail: luneborg.henrik@dk.sika.com
new lipstick
When I produce a SWF-file from a brochure made in InDesign CS4 and I try to view it with Flash player 10, it doesn't show the buttons and page transitions and search area?.
Can anybody tell me why? - or how to set it up?.
I want it to work as an e-page like this one:
http://www.e-pages.dk/sika/7/
Best regards,
Henrik L眉neborg
Sika Danmark A/S
E-mail: luneborg.henrik@dk.sika.com
Round corners missing
I'm part way through a problem that may yet be resolved by re-RIPping a PDF. But I thought I'd raise it anyway in case
there's an explanation.
I have placed images behind round cornered text frames and applied the round corners to the images at the point where
they coincide with the corners of the frames (that is, two corners rounded, two corners square) by placing a round
cornered image in a frame and then cropping the frame on one side to cut the corners square.
That has worked without problems. But in one frame I only wanted one corner of each image to be rounded, and there
wasn't enough spare on each image to crop the frames. So, using the pen tool I added a node either side of each rounded
corner I wanted to square off, then dragged the nodes to coincide with the real corner node, and it squared the corners OK.
So I have images which have been set to have rounded corners, but three of the corners have been edited back to squared
off. The fourth, rounded, corner then coincides with the rounded corner of a text frame above.
This all looks fine on the PDF. But on the RIPped proof, the rounded corner has gone, and I'm seeing an ''ear'' of the
squared-off picture behind the rounded text frame. Both pictures appear like this.
I'm suspicious that it's only the images that I have doctored the corners on that do this. But the PDF looks OK.
I've re-made the PDF and I'm waiting for a new proof. But I wondered whether anyone can suggest an explanation - if
indeed it's anything more than a glitch on the RIP or at proofing.
It's gone through an Apogee workflow, by the way.
k
Round corners missing
New proof shows my rounded corners as they should be. So it looks like that unwelcome occurrence, a hiccup in a system
that's not supposed to have hiccups.
Oh, and it wann't Apogee. It was Delano.
k
Round corners missing
You could save yourself a whole lot of grief, I think, if you selectively rounded just the corners you choose using the corner effects sample script.
If you need different rounding on different corners (as I used to do for one client) you can select the frame path and add a node either side of the corner, then delete the corner node itself and drag the control handles of your new nodes along the vertical or horizontal axis to make pretty much any curve at all.
Peter
Yes. You're probably right. The thing I'm a little uneasy about with that script is there's no way back - other than
Ctrl Z which doesn't help much if you decide to change the corner effects after doing other things. Attempting to run
the script on an image for the second time has decidedly interesting results.
An ''undo transformations'' button would be a good idea - or a radio button for ''no corner effect''.
k
I always run that script on a duplicate. If I don't like it I delete it.
Bob
That's what I get for walking the dog. I was going to say the same thing, more or less --keep a copy on the pasteboard for last minute change-of-mind.
there's an explanation.
I have placed images behind round cornered text frames and applied the round corners to the images at the point where
they coincide with the corners of the frames (that is, two corners rounded, two corners square) by placing a round
cornered image in a frame and then cropping the frame on one side to cut the corners square.
That has worked without problems. But in one frame I only wanted one corner of each image to be rounded, and there
wasn't enough spare on each image to crop the frames. So, using the pen tool I added a node either side of each rounded
corner I wanted to square off, then dragged the nodes to coincide with the real corner node, and it squared the corners OK.
So I have images which have been set to have rounded corners, but three of the corners have been edited back to squared
off. The fourth, rounded, corner then coincides with the rounded corner of a text frame above.
This all looks fine on the PDF. But on the RIPped proof, the rounded corner has gone, and I'm seeing an ''ear'' of the
squared-off picture behind the rounded text frame. Both pictures appear like this.
I'm suspicious that it's only the images that I have doctored the corners on that do this. But the PDF looks OK.
I've re-made the PDF and I'm waiting for a new proof. But I wondered whether anyone can suggest an explanation - if
indeed it's anything more than a glitch on the RIP or at proofing.
It's gone through an Apogee workflow, by the way.
k
Round corners missing
New proof shows my rounded corners as they should be. So it looks like that unwelcome occurrence, a hiccup in a system
that's not supposed to have hiccups.
Oh, and it wann't Apogee. It was Delano.
k
Round corners missing
You could save yourself a whole lot of grief, I think, if you selectively rounded just the corners you choose using the corner effects sample script.
If you need different rounding on different corners (as I used to do for one client) you can select the frame path and add a node either side of the corner, then delete the corner node itself and drag the control handles of your new nodes along the vertical or horizontal axis to make pretty much any curve at all.
Peter
Yes. You're probably right. The thing I'm a little uneasy about with that script is there's no way back - other than
Ctrl Z which doesn't help much if you decide to change the corner effects after doing other things. Attempting to run
the script on an image for the second time has decidedly interesting results.
An ''undo transformations'' button would be a good idea - or a radio button for ''no corner effect''.
k
I always run that script on a duplicate. If I don't like it I delete it.
Bob
That's what I get for walking the dog. I was going to say the same thing, more or less --keep a copy on the pasteboard for last minute change-of-mind.
Transparency and rasterised text
Just realised I don't know the answer to a basic problem.
Having inadvertently put text below a transparent object and suffered the emboldening caused by the rasterisation of the
text along with the transparency I was explaining to someone that the problem comes when the transparency is flattened
to make a PDF to 1.3 and below, but doesn't happen if the transparency is retained in the PDF to 1.4 and above.
But then I thought, is this so? Flattening of the transparency is pushed back to become the responsibility of the RIP.
But when the file is RIPped, does the problem of rasterising the text below transparency still occur?
k
Transparency and rasterised text
My GUESS is probably, yes, but keep in mind that everything is rasterized in the RIP (R is for Rasterized) in order to make those little dots with the laser. The difference is probably in HOW and what resolution is being used.
And are you sure it was emboldened (lovely term, by the way) through rasterization and not because it was converted to outlines? Did you check the flattener preview to see?
Peter
Transparency and rasterised text
There seem to be 3 distinct possibilities:
1. Rasterization is a cop-out for fast display on slow devices. Since RIPs can take the time, all transparent objects are mathematically clipped against eachother and rendered in their respective correct colors -- much like the 'expand objects' option in Illy. The results are mathematically flawless.
2. Rasterization is something to be done at device resolution, so the machine happily creates bitmaps -- with the same (native) resolution as the rest of the vectors are rasterized. The results are technically flawless.
3. Rasterization is a poor-man's solution to a real world problem without a solution: whatever the software specifies, paper can never be inked with the requested transparency. Whatever the software does, it's wrong, innit?
Are there RIP programmers amongst us?
This is the much-discussed ''text darkens near a cut out picture'' syndrome. Flattening a transparency on output
rasterises the text below and can make it look darker - hence emboldened - on the PDF, particularly at low
magnification. Yes, you can see it on the flattener preview as raster-fill text and strokes. And this preview actually
demonstrates quite neatly the standard work around - to lift the text to a layer above, or to simply raise it to the top
of the stack.
In print there is really no such thing as true vector - any vector image is ultimately converted to raster to enable the
plate to transfer ink to paper. I guess the same applies on a screen in that the vector image is a series of pixels, the
difference being that pixels are contiguous and dots on a printing screen aren't. But I was wondering if delaying the
flattening of an image which causes this phenomenon to RIP stage actually got rid of the problem such that any
rasterisation of the type becomes no more than the rasterisation which is going to be applied by the RIP anyway.
The difference I guess is that even with the flattener set at the standard for high resolution - 1200 ppi for text -
that is around half the resolution that one would expect the RIP to flatten to: 2,540 springs to mind.
k
%26gt;even with the flattener set at the standard for high resolution - 1200 ppi for text - that is around half the resolution that one would expect the RIP to flatten to: 2,540 springs to mind.
Perhaps 1200 dpi is enough for sharp text. I can hardly see the difference between offset and laserprinted material at (I think) %26gt; 800 dpi. When asked, I usually cheat and check if the book contain grayscale images -- now
i these
require the highest possible output resolution of a RIP.
This is why the Adobe PDF Print Engine exists. No postscript, no flattening.
Bob
Bob is just kidding. He knows as well as I do that PDF is a subset of PostScript Languagelevel 2. He also realizes that transparency has to be flattened
i somewhere
in the process, before it is turned into ink (or toner) onto paper.
PS. Not a very flattening remark, Bob.
So what is this
i flattening
? Do we know?
Al
It's an archaic method of dealing with transparency that dates back to %26lt;br /%26gt;the time of the dinosaurs. %26lt;g%26gt;%26lt;br /%26gt;%26lt;br /%26gt;Bob
Bob, handling documents with transparency to your printer does not imply they can print it with transparency. I repeat: your transparency has to be flattened
i somewhere.
Flattening: replacing transparent objects with non-transparent ones, simulating the effects of the transparency by calculating their effectual color and applying this to non-transparent objects. I i
think
InDesign can handle vector-over-vector transparency (with aforementioned clipping), but as soon as any bitmap effect is used -- glow, shadow -- it reverts to converting everything to bitmaps.
http://blogs.adobe.com/indesignchannel/2008/04/pdf_print_engine_james_wamser.htm l
Bob
PDF hasn't been a
subset of PostScript language level 2 for nearly 12 years now. With PDF 1.3 (Acrobat 4), PDF became a
superset of PostScript language level 3. And since then, with the addition of transparency and layers, PDF was well exceeded the PostScript language level 3 imaging model.
There is also a very big difference between flattening non-opaque PDF into opaque PostScript objects and reconciling the transparency directly at RIP time.
- Dov
%26gt;[...] especially true if you're using any transparency effects like a blend mode, drop shadow, gradient feather, etc. If you use PDFX-4, which is based on the 1.4 PDF spec, not only do you retain live, unflattened transparency...not only do you preserve live transparency when you submit the PDF, it's also still there after we RIP it [...]
Cool. Never too old ta learn. I was
i way
out of line accusing poor Bob of bein' old fashioned an all.
So ... raw PostScript is on its way out. Time to unlearn stuff again (*sigh*).
Having inadvertently put text below a transparent object and suffered the emboldening caused by the rasterisation of the
text along with the transparency I was explaining to someone that the problem comes when the transparency is flattened
to make a PDF to 1.3 and below, but doesn't happen if the transparency is retained in the PDF to 1.4 and above.
But then I thought, is this so? Flattening of the transparency is pushed back to become the responsibility of the RIP.
But when the file is RIPped, does the problem of rasterising the text below transparency still occur?
k
Transparency and rasterised text
My GUESS is probably, yes, but keep in mind that everything is rasterized in the RIP (R is for Rasterized) in order to make those little dots with the laser. The difference is probably in HOW and what resolution is being used.
And are you sure it was emboldened (lovely term, by the way) through rasterization and not because it was converted to outlines? Did you check the flattener preview to see?
Peter
Transparency and rasterised text
There seem to be 3 distinct possibilities:
1. Rasterization is a cop-out for fast display on slow devices. Since RIPs can take the time, all transparent objects are mathematically clipped against eachother and rendered in their respective correct colors -- much like the 'expand objects' option in Illy. The results are mathematically flawless.
2. Rasterization is something to be done at device resolution, so the machine happily creates bitmaps -- with the same (native) resolution as the rest of the vectors are rasterized. The results are technically flawless.
3. Rasterization is a poor-man's solution to a real world problem without a solution: whatever the software specifies, paper can never be inked with the requested transparency. Whatever the software does, it's wrong, innit?
Are there RIP programmers amongst us?
This is the much-discussed ''text darkens near a cut out picture'' syndrome. Flattening a transparency on output
rasterises the text below and can make it look darker - hence emboldened - on the PDF, particularly at low
magnification. Yes, you can see it on the flattener preview as raster-fill text and strokes. And this preview actually
demonstrates quite neatly the standard work around - to lift the text to a layer above, or to simply raise it to the top
of the stack.
In print there is really no such thing as true vector - any vector image is ultimately converted to raster to enable the
plate to transfer ink to paper. I guess the same applies on a screen in that the vector image is a series of pixels, the
difference being that pixels are contiguous and dots on a printing screen aren't. But I was wondering if delaying the
flattening of an image which causes this phenomenon to RIP stage actually got rid of the problem such that any
rasterisation of the type becomes no more than the rasterisation which is going to be applied by the RIP anyway.
The difference I guess is that even with the flattener set at the standard for high resolution - 1200 ppi for text -
that is around half the resolution that one would expect the RIP to flatten to: 2,540 springs to mind.
k
%26gt;even with the flattener set at the standard for high resolution - 1200 ppi for text - that is around half the resolution that one would expect the RIP to flatten to: 2,540 springs to mind.
Perhaps 1200 dpi is enough for sharp text. I can hardly see the difference between offset and laserprinted material at (I think) %26gt; 800 dpi. When asked, I usually cheat and check if the book contain grayscale images -- now
i these
require the highest possible output resolution of a RIP.
This is why the Adobe PDF Print Engine exists. No postscript, no flattening.
Bob
Bob is just kidding. He knows as well as I do that PDF is a subset of PostScript Languagelevel 2. He also realizes that transparency has to be flattened
i somewhere
in the process, before it is turned into ink (or toner) onto paper.
PS. Not a very flattening remark, Bob.
So what is this
i flattening
? Do we know?
Al
It's an archaic method of dealing with transparency that dates back to %26lt;br /%26gt;the time of the dinosaurs. %26lt;g%26gt;%26lt;br /%26gt;%26lt;br /%26gt;Bob
Bob, handling documents with transparency to your printer does not imply they can print it with transparency. I repeat: your transparency has to be flattened
i somewhere.
Flattening: replacing transparent objects with non-transparent ones, simulating the effects of the transparency by calculating their effectual color and applying this to non-transparent objects. I i
think
InDesign can handle vector-over-vector transparency (with aforementioned clipping), but as soon as any bitmap effect is used -- glow, shadow -- it reverts to converting everything to bitmaps.
http://blogs.adobe.com/indesignchannel/2008/04/pdf_print_engine_james_wamser.htm l
Bob
PDF hasn't been a
subset of PostScript language level 2 for nearly 12 years now. With PDF 1.3 (Acrobat 4), PDF became a
superset of PostScript language level 3. And since then, with the addition of transparency and layers, PDF was well exceeded the PostScript language level 3 imaging model.
There is also a very big difference between flattening non-opaque PDF into opaque PostScript objects and reconciling the transparency directly at RIP time.
- Dov
%26gt;[...] especially true if you're using any transparency effects like a blend mode, drop shadow, gradient feather, etc. If you use PDFX-4, which is based on the 1.4 PDF spec, not only do you retain live, unflattened transparency...not only do you preserve live transparency when you submit the PDF, it's also still there after we RIP it [...]
Cool. Never too old ta learn. I was
i way
out of line accusing poor Bob of bein' old fashioned an all.
So ... raw PostScript is on its way out. Time to unlearn stuff again (*sigh*).
How to turn off plug-ins? CS3
I have recieved an InDesign document that I am planning to update. I am told that a plug-in is not installed on my computer. I happen to know that this plug-in is not necessary for this document, so how do I remove the reference /link to it?
PS. I am Swedish so please explain clearly.
Thank you!
How to turn off plug-ins? CS3
hi Eva
1) export as INX
2) open this INX
3) save with new name
robin
--
www.adobescripts.com
How to turn off plug-ins? CS3
Thanks a million!!!
It worked...
Eva
PS. I am Swedish so please explain clearly.
Thank you!
How to turn off plug-ins? CS3
hi Eva
1) export as INX
2) open this INX
3) save with new name
robin
--
www.adobescripts.com
How to turn off plug-ins? CS3
Thanks a million!!!
It worked...
Eva
How Do I Completely Flatten Output on...
We have about 500 PDFs that get printed over 250,000 times a year. Our new document design using ID CS3 on XP SP3 has a lot more graphic sophistication using transparencies. When exporting I haven't found the setting that completely flattens the file as it's being saved as a PDF. The result is that when printed, the flattening step takes an additional 8-10 seconds. At our volume this is bad.
I've played with the various PDF presets and trying to lock the ID template to the predefined PDF preset with not much luck.
Any help would be very much appreciated!
Cheers!
Larry
worldvision.org
How Do I Completely Flatten Output on...
What is your definition of completely flattened?
Bob
How Do I Completely Flatten Output on...
BTW, in my experience, exporting without flattening is faster.
Bob
Have you tried PDF X/1-a? That should be flattening the file, but my experience is that you generally get better output by letting the RIP do the flattening at print time.
Peter
To clarify - the goal is that the resulting PDF will not go through the flattening routine when printed saving 8-10 sec.s each time they are printed. These files are printed as part of the daily print job as required. Thus we aren't able to take advantage of the RIPs rip one, print many feature.
So again, the resulting PDF should not require any additional flattening at the time of printing.
Does that answer?
Thanks!
Then export the PDF as X/1-a...but that's going to take longer than than
exporting with live transparency.
Bob
Good call - it does the trick! I will need to do a little more testing though as it appears on this first test that the color fidelity suffers a tad.
Next question: I'm merging XML data, graphics and pictures through an ID template and outputting to PDF. How do I associate the export X/1-a parameter with the template? I'm using a .NET app to do the actual merge which speeds things up.
Larry
%26gt;it appears on this first test that the color fidelity suffers a tad.
This could be the result of having the wrong transparency flattening color space selected.
The Export to PDF by PDF/X-1a does a couple of things auto-
matically:
1) Flatten layers (this is called 'merging' in ID)
2) Flatten transparency in the chosen transparency flattening
space
3) Convert everything into the document's CMYK color space
As a consequence, the automatism will work correctly only in
this situation:
a) All ingredients are defined in the document's CMYK color
space.
b) As Peter says: the transparency flattening space is the
document's CMYK space.
Visual deviations between monitor and print are to be expected
in these situations (besides wrong viewing conditions):
a) The monitor isn't calibrated correctly
b1) The printer isn't calibrated correctly (inkjet)
c1) The chosen CMYK profile isn't that of the printer (inkjet)
d1) If the profile is correct : the RIP doesn't feed through
the CMYK numbers without a change
b2) The process doesn't match the profile (offset) because
of actual deviations
c2) The profile doesn't match the process (offset) because
of a wrong choice, for instance ISOCoated instead of
SWOP. Mainly wrong because of different ink densities
e) The document contains untagged RGB images (no profile
embedded), and their original space isn't that of the
document
The process of transparency flattening depends also on the
applied algorithms. Actual tests by a PostScript toner
printer delivered visually different results for these two
cases:
a) Flatten by Export to PDF (Acrobat4)
b) Export without flattening (Acrobat5 or higher)
Flattening in the printer by PostScript color management,
based on ICC profiles
According to these and other tests, any proof printing
(normally by inkjet) of not flattened PDFs is unsafe,
because the flattening algorithms of the proof printer RIP
and the plate-setter RIP can differ.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Thanks Peter and Gernot - we will review the various options here and post the outcome. It may be easiest just to adjust the color profile for our high speed Konica/Minolta color laser printer/copiers and RIPs to compensate, but we'll look into the transparency flattening color space as well.
Cheers!
The issue of flattening seems to be rather complex,
considering different sources of transparency, gradients,
spot colors and overprinting, in addition to simple
CMYK docs.
Here comes an interesting report (originally mentioned
by Bob Levine a while ago):
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/creativesuite/articles/cs3ip_transp.html
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Thank you for caring enough to share the knowledge. I've been browsing through the article and they have a lot of useful info. I have a lot to learn!
I've played with the various PDF presets and trying to lock the ID template to the predefined PDF preset with not much luck.
Any help would be very much appreciated!
Cheers!
Larry
worldvision.org
How Do I Completely Flatten Output on...
What is your definition of completely flattened?
Bob
How Do I Completely Flatten Output on...
BTW, in my experience, exporting without flattening is faster.
Bob
Have you tried PDF X/1-a? That should be flattening the file, but my experience is that you generally get better output by letting the RIP do the flattening at print time.
Peter
To clarify - the goal is that the resulting PDF will not go through the flattening routine when printed saving 8-10 sec.s each time they are printed. These files are printed as part of the daily print job as required. Thus we aren't able to take advantage of the RIPs rip one, print many feature.
So again, the resulting PDF should not require any additional flattening at the time of printing.
Does that answer?
Thanks!
Then export the PDF as X/1-a...but that's going to take longer than than
exporting with live transparency.
Bob
Good call - it does the trick! I will need to do a little more testing though as it appears on this first test that the color fidelity suffers a tad.
Next question: I'm merging XML data, graphics and pictures through an ID template and outputting to PDF. How do I associate the export X/1-a parameter with the template? I'm using a .NET app to do the actual merge which speeds things up.
Larry
%26gt;it appears on this first test that the color fidelity suffers a tad.
This could be the result of having the wrong transparency flattening color space selected.
The Export to PDF by PDF/X-1a does a couple of things auto-
matically:
1) Flatten layers (this is called 'merging' in ID)
2) Flatten transparency in the chosen transparency flattening
space
3) Convert everything into the document's CMYK color space
As a consequence, the automatism will work correctly only in
this situation:
a) All ingredients are defined in the document's CMYK color
space.
b) As Peter says: the transparency flattening space is the
document's CMYK space.
Visual deviations between monitor and print are to be expected
in these situations (besides wrong viewing conditions):
a) The monitor isn't calibrated correctly
b1) The printer isn't calibrated correctly (inkjet)
c1) The chosen CMYK profile isn't that of the printer (inkjet)
d1) If the profile is correct : the RIP doesn't feed through
the CMYK numbers without a change
b2) The process doesn't match the profile (offset) because
of actual deviations
c2) The profile doesn't match the process (offset) because
of a wrong choice, for instance ISOCoated instead of
SWOP. Mainly wrong because of different ink densities
e) The document contains untagged RGB images (no profile
embedded), and their original space isn't that of the
document
The process of transparency flattening depends also on the
applied algorithms. Actual tests by a PostScript toner
printer delivered visually different results for these two
cases:
a) Flatten by Export to PDF (Acrobat4)
b) Export without flattening (Acrobat5 or higher)
Flattening in the printer by PostScript color management,
based on ICC profiles
According to these and other tests, any proof printing
(normally by inkjet) of not flattened PDFs is unsafe,
because the flattening algorithms of the proof printer RIP
and the plate-setter RIP can differ.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Thanks Peter and Gernot - we will review the various options here and post the outcome. It may be easiest just to adjust the color profile for our high speed Konica/Minolta color laser printer/copiers and RIPs to compensate, but we'll look into the transparency flattening color space as well.
Cheers!
The issue of flattening seems to be rather complex,
considering different sources of transparency, gradients,
spot colors and overprinting, in addition to simple
CMYK docs.
Here comes an interesting report (originally mentioned
by Bob Levine a while ago):
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/creativesuite/articles/cs3ip_transp.html
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Thank you for caring enough to share the knowledge. I've been browsing through the article and they have a lot of useful info. I have a lot to learn!
CS4 (XP Pro)--missing bold and italic...
I'm working on a book that's been translated into Chinese. The Chinese text I'm using was sent to me in Microsoft Word using the PMingLiu font. While in Word, there are some characters that appear in bold and/or italics, but those disappear when I try any means of importing into ID (as in placing the file as a Word document, placing the file as rtf, or even just copying and pasting from Word).
As I've seen mentioned in other topics on this forum, no matter what I do, I get the pink boxes that I have to highlight and change to PMingLiu (slow but not a huge problem). But I really do need the bolds and italics. I only seem to have ''Regular'' PMingLiu--don't have the bold and italic varieties listed in my font list.
Are those fonts available somewhere to download?
Thanks so much to the oh-so helpful readers of this forum!
CS4 (XP Pro)--missing bold and italic...
Microsoft Office applications as well as many other applications allow you to ''bold'' or ''italicize'' content even when the ''bold'' or ''italic'' version of the font is either not installed or in fact might not even exist. Artificial bold usually consists of stroking the character slightly in addition to filling it. Artificial italic is performed by skewing (obliqueing) the character to simulate the look of an italic style. Although these artificial techniques sometimes yield usable results, they are typically NOT supported by graphic arts programs such as InDesign, Illustrator, or Photoshop. Typically, bold and italic faces are typical of most but not all ''Latin'' font families but are less common for non-Latin font families.
In your particular case, I suspect that artificial bold, italic, and/or combinations of bold and italic were used with the font in question. InDesign does ''the right thing'' by indicating that no such font exists. If you want to simulate bold, let the characters in question be stroked in addition to being filled. The width of the stroke will obviously depend on the point size of the text and the style of the characters. You will need to experiment a bit. For italics, skew the characters to the right; again you will need to experiment.
Doing a quick web search, from what I can best determine, there are no bold or italic versions of PMingLiu available either for free or for paid licensing.
- Dov
CS4 (XP Pro)--missing bold and italic...
Chinese does not 'come' in italics, only in bold. Any writer using italicized Chinese should have a firm talking-to.
You can do manually what what word is doing invisibly, i.e. add that VERY SMALL stroke for bold, or incline for italic, though I don't think either is a particularly good idea. Make character styles to do it and your life will be easier.
The big problem with faux bold is that the glyphs become taller than the surrounding non-bolded ones, and counters tend to fill in and hairlines get grotesquely fat.
It is as I suspected--no such thing as bold and italic PMingLiu. Thanks so much for your responses!
As I've seen mentioned in other topics on this forum, no matter what I do, I get the pink boxes that I have to highlight and change to PMingLiu (slow but not a huge problem). But I really do need the bolds and italics. I only seem to have ''Regular'' PMingLiu--don't have the bold and italic varieties listed in my font list.
Are those fonts available somewhere to download?
Thanks so much to the oh-so helpful readers of this forum!
CS4 (XP Pro)--missing bold and italic...
Microsoft Office applications as well as many other applications allow you to ''bold'' or ''italicize'' content even when the ''bold'' or ''italic'' version of the font is either not installed or in fact might not even exist. Artificial bold usually consists of stroking the character slightly in addition to filling it. Artificial italic is performed by skewing (obliqueing) the character to simulate the look of an italic style. Although these artificial techniques sometimes yield usable results, they are typically NOT supported by graphic arts programs such as InDesign, Illustrator, or Photoshop. Typically, bold and italic faces are typical of most but not all ''Latin'' font families but are less common for non-Latin font families.
In your particular case, I suspect that artificial bold, italic, and/or combinations of bold and italic were used with the font in question. InDesign does ''the right thing'' by indicating that no such font exists. If you want to simulate bold, let the characters in question be stroked in addition to being filled. The width of the stroke will obviously depend on the point size of the text and the style of the characters. You will need to experiment a bit. For italics, skew the characters to the right; again you will need to experiment.
Doing a quick web search, from what I can best determine, there are no bold or italic versions of PMingLiu available either for free or for paid licensing.
- Dov
CS4 (XP Pro)--missing bold and italic...
Chinese does not 'come' in italics, only in bold. Any writer using italicized Chinese should have a firm talking-to.
You can do manually what what word is doing invisibly, i.e. add that VERY SMALL stroke for bold, or incline for italic, though I don't think either is a particularly good idea. Make character styles to do it and your life will be easier.
The big problem with faux bold is that the glyphs become taller than the surrounding non-bolded ones, and counters tend to fill in and hairlines get grotesquely fat.
It is as I suspected--no such thing as bold and italic PMingLiu. Thanks so much for your responses!
Exporting PDF for comments
Using CS4, I've tried exporting a document as a PDF (smallest size for screen viewing) with Security set to ''any...'' or to ''commenting %26amp; filling forms'' with a password.
When I open this PDF in Reader 9.0, I cannot comment and in fact security explicitly says commenting is not allowed. Yet the title bar adds ''Secured'' but I am never asked for the password and the Comment toolbar will not appear even when ticked.
What must I do to enable commenting for the PDF reader?
Rob
Exporting PDF for comments
Open it in Acrobat Pro and enable Reader commenting there. What you want
to do can't be done in InDesign despite that very confusing language as
far as the security settings go.
Bob
Exporting PDF for comments
Since I only have Acrobat Standard, I'm assuming I'm out of luck.
Regardless, I say that ''very confusing language'' was not exactly right. It is just plain incorrect language if you can't do it from InDesign at all.
Not sure if standard can do it or not...check under the Comments menu
and look for enable commenting and analysis in Adobe Reader.
Bob
Nope. Nothing like that in the Standard one. Just commenting using Acrobat itself.
I really do think the IDCS4 security settings need a rewrite. There isn't a hint that anything extra is needed to allow commenting. Especially since it is lumped in with form filling which IS shown as allowed in Reader.
Which version of Acrobat Standard? Enabling commenting may have moved around a bit (and of course those of us with Acrobat 9 can't go back to look at earlier versions 'cause the ain't there no more). It would be worth exploring all the menus, if you haven't.
I agree with you, by the way, that the language can be confusing, and you are the second victim this week.
Peter
I have Acrobat 9 Standard. I've looked at all the Menus and I can't find anything like what was suggested. I can remove security from the pdf (InDesign forces you to use a password to ''enable'' commenting and forms filling). This just results in the word ''secured'' in the title bar being removed. Very useful indeed. (ahem).
Rob
new lipstick
When I open this PDF in Reader 9.0, I cannot comment and in fact security explicitly says commenting is not allowed. Yet the title bar adds ''Secured'' but I am never asked for the password and the Comment toolbar will not appear even when ticked.
What must I do to enable commenting for the PDF reader?
Rob
Exporting PDF for comments
Open it in Acrobat Pro and enable Reader commenting there. What you want
to do can't be done in InDesign despite that very confusing language as
far as the security settings go.
Bob
Exporting PDF for comments
Since I only have Acrobat Standard, I'm assuming I'm out of luck.
Regardless, I say that ''very confusing language'' was not exactly right. It is just plain incorrect language if you can't do it from InDesign at all.
Not sure if standard can do it or not...check under the Comments menu
and look for enable commenting and analysis in Adobe Reader.
Bob
Nope. Nothing like that in the Standard one. Just commenting using Acrobat itself.
I really do think the IDCS4 security settings need a rewrite. There isn't a hint that anything extra is needed to allow commenting. Especially since it is lumped in with form filling which IS shown as allowed in Reader.
Which version of Acrobat Standard? Enabling commenting may have moved around a bit (and of course those of us with Acrobat 9 can't go back to look at earlier versions 'cause the ain't there no more). It would be worth exploring all the menus, if you haven't.
I agree with you, by the way, that the language can be confusing, and you are the second victim this week.
Peter
I have Acrobat 9 Standard. I've looked at all the Menus and I can't find anything like what was suggested. I can remove security from the pdf (InDesign forces you to use a password to ''enable'' commenting and forms filling). This just results in the word ''secured'' in the title bar being removed. Very useful indeed. (ahem).
Rob
PDF Highlights Missing when imported...
I have a PDF with highlights (comments). When I place the PDF into InDesign CS3 the highlighting is gone. When I had InDesign CS the highlighting remained. How can I get the highlighting to show up?
I have tried many variations on settings, even saving my PDF down to older versions. Any suggestions?
PDF Highlights Missing when imported...
AFAIK comments do not come through on a placed PDF.
Bob
PDF Highlights Missing when imported...
They used to work in InDesign CS.
I have tried many variations on settings, even saving my PDF down to older versions. Any suggestions?
PDF Highlights Missing when imported...
AFAIK comments do not come through on a placed PDF.
Bob
PDF Highlights Missing when imported...
They used to work in InDesign CS.
Anchoring a text object in ID CS4
If you create the object new each time, anchoring the object is pretty straightforward in ID CS4. My question is about a repeat element that is dragged and dropped from a library.
I created a text box object with text in it as an element of a book. The text box is solid black and the text is white. The box is a set size and with rounded corners. It is an element that is repeated numerous times in the book. I want to anchor the element above the line.
Because the element repeats, I placed the element in a library. I want to drag the element from the library to the document, place it, and anchor it. The drag and drop is not the problem; the anchoring of the already created text box is the problem. Is there a way to anchor this element (text box)?
Thanks.
Rich
Anchoring a text object in ID CS4
I don't use a lot of anchored objects, so there may well be a better method, but I think you are pretty much stuck with dropping it on the page or pasteboard anywhere, then cutting and pasting inline at the insertion point. At that point I think anchored object settings saved in the object style (if you've defined an object style and assigned it to the library item) will kick in and take care of positioning.
Peter
Anchoring a text object in ID CS4
Why drag and drop? If you have an insertion point active in text, then all you have to do is Place Item from the Library drop-down menu and it will anchor itself at the insertion point.
I did this so often a few years back that I assigned a shortcut to the command to make it even easier.
Dave
Thank you, Peter and Dave.
Dave, your solution works perfectly. I had no idea it could be done this way (couldn't find it in any of the books I have).
Peter, I hadn't thought about creating an object style, but I will now.
Rich
I created a text box object with text in it as an element of a book. The text box is solid black and the text is white. The box is a set size and with rounded corners. It is an element that is repeated numerous times in the book. I want to anchor the element above the line.
Because the element repeats, I placed the element in a library. I want to drag the element from the library to the document, place it, and anchor it. The drag and drop is not the problem; the anchoring of the already created text box is the problem. Is there a way to anchor this element (text box)?
Thanks.
Rich
Anchoring a text object in ID CS4
I don't use a lot of anchored objects, so there may well be a better method, but I think you are pretty much stuck with dropping it on the page or pasteboard anywhere, then cutting and pasting inline at the insertion point. At that point I think anchored object settings saved in the object style (if you've defined an object style and assigned it to the library item) will kick in and take care of positioning.
Peter
Anchoring a text object in ID CS4
Why drag and drop? If you have an insertion point active in text, then all you have to do is Place Item from the Library drop-down menu and it will anchor itself at the insertion point.
I did this so often a few years back that I assigned a shortcut to the command to make it even easier.
Dave
Thank you, Peter and Dave.
Dave, your solution works perfectly. I had no idea it could be done this way (couldn't find it in any of the books I have).
Peter, I hadn't thought about creating an object style, but I will now.
Rich
Font size changes by page
Help!
I am using InDesign CS3, and when I enter text--regardless of font--the size makes little impact. Size 12 can be huge or small. It seems to change when I copy and paste from word, PDFs, or type directly. In all cases, changing the font to point 12 (or point11) can't fix it.
help!
Font size changes by page
It sounds like either you've managed to set text scaling as a default by setting it when nothing is selected (check the text scaling fields), or your preferences have become corrupt and need to be replaced (which is more likely).
http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/InDesign/5.0/help.html?content=WSa285fff53dea4f8 617383751001ea8cb3f-6d1e.html
I am using InDesign CS3, and when I enter text--regardless of font--the size makes little impact. Size 12 can be huge or small. It seems to change when I copy and paste from word, PDFs, or type directly. In all cases, changing the font to point 12 (or point11) can't fix it.
help!
Font size changes by page
It sounds like either you've managed to set text scaling as a default by setting it when nothing is selected (check the text scaling fields), or your preferences have become corrupt and need to be replaced (which is more likely).
http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/InDesign/5.0/help.html?content=WSa285fff53dea4f8 617383751001ea8cb3f-6d1e.html
IDCS2 - Print/save seperate pdf files...
Hi everyone,
I'm having this issue here. I've created a new document after data merging, this document has 50 pages, every page contains an amount, a code and an image. Now i need to have 50 seperate pdf files, so 1 pdf per page, from this with a file name that goes like this: ''ammount_code.pdf''
Is this possible, if yes, can you explain like I was a 3-year-old kid please? :-)
Thanks in advance!!
IDCS2 - Print/save seperate pdf files...
I don't think there is any nice, automatic way to do this out of the box. It might be scriptable, though, since you could probably pull the amount code for each page that way, but you'd need to ask over in the scripting forum for the fastest response.
In the meantime, someone asked a similar question last week, and I pointed him to a paid plugin, and you can also export the document to PDF, then use Acrobat Pro to extract the pages to separate files, but at that point I think you'd need to manually rename them to get your codes as the filenames.
Peter
IDCS2 - Print/save seperate pdf files...
Thanks for you quick response! I post this message here: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbf275d.59b7f96f
You can get your 50 separate pages easily enough by just exporting as a PDF and then in Acrobat, extracting the pages as
separate files. But the file naming will be along the lines of file_name_1, file_name_2 etc.
k
I think there's an echo in here this morning. :)
Peter
Yes, sorry about that. Trying to do too many things at once and answering posts before reading the rest of the replies.
k
Well, we all appreciate the effort and it never hurts to reinforce.
Must be close to the end of the day over on your side of the pond, too.
Cheers.
Yep. Time to start the night shift.
k
I'm having this issue here. I've created a new document after data merging, this document has 50 pages, every page contains an amount, a code and an image. Now i need to have 50 seperate pdf files, so 1 pdf per page, from this with a file name that goes like this: ''ammount_code.pdf''
Is this possible, if yes, can you explain like I was a 3-year-old kid please? :-)
Thanks in advance!!
IDCS2 - Print/save seperate pdf files...
I don't think there is any nice, automatic way to do this out of the box. It might be scriptable, though, since you could probably pull the amount code for each page that way, but you'd need to ask over in the scripting forum for the fastest response.
In the meantime, someone asked a similar question last week, and I pointed him to a paid plugin, and you can also export the document to PDF, then use Acrobat Pro to extract the pages to separate files, but at that point I think you'd need to manually rename them to get your codes as the filenames.
Peter
IDCS2 - Print/save seperate pdf files...
Thanks for you quick response! I post this message here: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbf275d.59b7f96f
You can get your 50 separate pages easily enough by just exporting as a PDF and then in Acrobat, extracting the pages as
separate files. But the file naming will be along the lines of file_name_1, file_name_2 etc.
k
I think there's an echo in here this morning. :)
Peter
Yes, sorry about that. Trying to do too many things at once and answering posts before reading the rest of the replies.
k
Well, we all appreciate the effort and it never hurts to reinforce.
Must be close to the end of the day over on your side of the pond, too.
Cheers.
Yep. Time to start the night shift.
k
PPD files
I am using ID CS4. Where do .ppd files go? I am getting some error msgs in trying to print a file now and need to get the correct .ppd files in place. Any help would be appreciated.
PPD files
The correct ppd file should be selected and installed automatically during the printer installation routine. Are you sure you have the Postscript driver installed correctly?
Peter
PPD files
I just started having this problem today. I have no idea what may have changed with my installation. I thought it may have been file related but it is doing it with other ID files. What is happening is this: I'm trying to print a file I need to duplex. I go to print, choose my printer and hit the setup button at the bottom left. I then hit the preferences button so I can get to my duplex option and I get the following error msg:
Function address 0x39e3cac8 caused a protection fault. (exception code 0xc0000005) Some or all property page(s) may not be displayed.
I thought if I could check to see if it was PPD related but I cannot find where those files should be. I'm without the ability to duplex any of my ID print jobs. My work-around I guess would be to print the file as a PDF and print from that but I'd still like to solve this problem. Any suggestions would be welcome.
Rename the printer temporarily in Windows, then install a new instance and see if it works better.
Peter
The problem has been solved. MIS recently migrated most of our main network drives to a new server. What came from that is most users were pointed back to an old print server that is no longer used hence the error msgs. MIS had no answers as to why/how it happened but had the solution. We are now good to go. Thanks for the help.
PPD files
The correct ppd file should be selected and installed automatically during the printer installation routine. Are you sure you have the Postscript driver installed correctly?
Peter
PPD files
I just started having this problem today. I have no idea what may have changed with my installation. I thought it may have been file related but it is doing it with other ID files. What is happening is this: I'm trying to print a file I need to duplex. I go to print, choose my printer and hit the setup button at the bottom left. I then hit the preferences button so I can get to my duplex option and I get the following error msg:
Function address 0x39e3cac8 caused a protection fault. (exception code 0xc0000005) Some or all property page(s) may not be displayed.
I thought if I could check to see if it was PPD related but I cannot find where those files should be. I'm without the ability to duplex any of my ID print jobs. My work-around I guess would be to print the file as a PDF and print from that but I'd still like to solve this problem. Any suggestions would be welcome.
Rename the printer temporarily in Windows, then install a new instance and see if it works better.
Peter
The problem has been solved. MIS recently migrated most of our main network drives to a new server. What came from that is most users were pointed back to an old print server that is no longer used hence the error msgs. MIS had no answers as to why/how it happened but had the solution. We are now good to go. Thanks for the help.
Converting files to InDesign CS3 from...
We have lot of files needs to be converted from Illustrator to InDesign CS3.
How can it be done? We have tried but it is coming as an image %26amp; can not modify anything.
Converting files to InDesign CS3 from...
%26gt; How can it be done?
Very slowly.
Why do you need to do this?
Bob
Converting files to InDesign CS3 from...
Are you one of those people who think/wish/demand InDesign to do
i everything
related to any graphic file, web page, or any other object?
%26gt;.. it is coming as an image %26amp; can not modify anything.
You create vector images with Illustrator. You modify vector images with Illustrator.
When you're done, you place the file into a document in InDesign. If you need to modify it again, do so in ... Illustrator.
Well, some people use Illy as a page layout app. It's a bad idea, I know, but it happens, and when someone's layout in Illustrator crosses my desk, I'm expected to rebuild the Illustrator doc in ID before delivery. (The same is true of page layout in Powerpoint or Visio, for what it's worth.)
I don't know the technical limitations of the clipboard here, but my basic technique, when the clipboard rasterizes the content I'm trying to copy and paste from Illy, is to do the C%26amp;P fractionally, to figure out which element is causing the clipboard to rasterize. It very much depends on the content of the Illustrator file, so I can't give you much specific advice. If your Illustrator file has a bunch of layers, try doing it a layer at a time. If your file has mixed raster %26amp; vector content, try copying just the vector stuff.
Makes more sense to me to do the copy paste stuff partly internally in Illy. Make new segregated Illustrator files for artwork that you can place in ID, then move the text as text.
There are huge advantages to linking artwork over pasting it, even if it doesn't rasterize or do other funky stuff.
Peter
Yeah, you're right as usual, Peter, but what if there isn't any vector artwork in the Illustrator file? You'd be aghast at the number of fill-in-the-blank forms I've converted from Illy to ID; files that needed the typographical control of ID, but didn't need any real vector content. You know, where the blanks should have been done with tab leaders, and instead are a forest of underscores, really short text boxes with ''rich black'' stroke, text boxes with fill but no stroke, et cetera. Forms where the only ''artwork'' is a 72 ppi raster logo pasted from a Word file. I could go on for hours in this vein.
You might be assuming that the OP's Illustrator files were made by a competent, non-crazy designer, and that they are mostly vector content and therefore should have been made in Illy in the first place. Over here in nonprofit-land, I can't afford to make such assumptions. So, I'm not going to assume that there's any vector content at all in Masud's files. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. How can I judge, from the ~20 words that he's posted on the topic? I mean, maybe jongware is absolutely right in assuming that the OP is trying to make ID the do-it-all app, but we have no way to know.
Speaking of which: Hey, Masud, you had best post some details about your project (like the details that Bob requested, for example), unless you want this thread to die.
new lipstick
How can it be done? We have tried but it is coming as an image %26amp; can not modify anything.
Converting files to InDesign CS3 from...
%26gt; How can it be done?
Very slowly.
Why do you need to do this?
Bob
Converting files to InDesign CS3 from...
Are you one of those people who think/wish/demand InDesign to do
i everything
related to any graphic file, web page, or any other object?
%26gt;.. it is coming as an image %26amp; can not modify anything.
You create vector images with Illustrator. You modify vector images with Illustrator.
When you're done, you place the file into a document in InDesign. If you need to modify it again, do so in ... Illustrator.
Well, some people use Illy as a page layout app. It's a bad idea, I know, but it happens, and when someone's layout in Illustrator crosses my desk, I'm expected to rebuild the Illustrator doc in ID before delivery. (The same is true of page layout in Powerpoint or Visio, for what it's worth.)
I don't know the technical limitations of the clipboard here, but my basic technique, when the clipboard rasterizes the content I'm trying to copy and paste from Illy, is to do the C%26amp;P fractionally, to figure out which element is causing the clipboard to rasterize. It very much depends on the content of the Illustrator file, so I can't give you much specific advice. If your Illustrator file has a bunch of layers, try doing it a layer at a time. If your file has mixed raster %26amp; vector content, try copying just the vector stuff.
Makes more sense to me to do the copy paste stuff partly internally in Illy. Make new segregated Illustrator files for artwork that you can place in ID, then move the text as text.
There are huge advantages to linking artwork over pasting it, even if it doesn't rasterize or do other funky stuff.
Peter
Yeah, you're right as usual, Peter, but what if there isn't any vector artwork in the Illustrator file? You'd be aghast at the number of fill-in-the-blank forms I've converted from Illy to ID; files that needed the typographical control of ID, but didn't need any real vector content. You know, where the blanks should have been done with tab leaders, and instead are a forest of underscores, really short text boxes with ''rich black'' stroke, text boxes with fill but no stroke, et cetera. Forms where the only ''artwork'' is a 72 ppi raster logo pasted from a Word file. I could go on for hours in this vein.
You might be assuming that the OP's Illustrator files were made by a competent, non-crazy designer, and that they are mostly vector content and therefore should have been made in Illy in the first place. Over here in nonprofit-land, I can't afford to make such assumptions. So, I'm not going to assume that there's any vector content at all in Masud's files. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. How can I judge, from the ~20 words that he's posted on the topic? I mean, maybe jongware is absolutely right in assuming that the OP is trying to make ID the do-it-all app, but we have no way to know.
Speaking of which: Hey, Masud, you had best post some details about your project (like the details that Bob requested, for example), unless you want this thread to die.
Any nice and easy method to create...
Hi!
I'm working on a small catalogue for a small event. And its high time I start creating the cover.
I know that in inDesign, the best easiest method to get to pages beside each other (for a front and back stretching design)is to make a 3 page document. The first page stands alone, but the next two are right beside one another.
Other than that, I don't really have an idea for how to begin making an appropriate cover design. Any suggestions? For one, any way to simply start with a two page spread instead of having them split apart?
Any nice and easy method to create...
Usually, a cover is one page, not two. A cover with a spine is printed
as a single piece of material, back cover on the left, spine in the
middle, front cover on the right (open a book and flatten it pages down
on the table to see what I mean). The easiest way to set up a cover with
a spine is to calculate the page size (back + spine + front x height),
make a new document, and divide that one page into two columns with
spine width = column gutter.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Any nice and easy method to create...
Wow, thank you for the great response!! :)
I'm working on a small catalogue for a small event. And its high time I start creating the cover.
I know that in inDesign, the best easiest method to get to pages beside each other (for a front and back stretching design)is to make a 3 page document. The first page stands alone, but the next two are right beside one another.
Other than that, I don't really have an idea for how to begin making an appropriate cover design. Any suggestions? For one, any way to simply start with a two page spread instead of having them split apart?
Any nice and easy method to create...
Usually, a cover is one page, not two. A cover with a spine is printed
as a single piece of material, back cover on the left, spine in the
middle, front cover on the right (open a book and flatten it pages down
on the table to see what I mean). The easiest way to set up a cover with
a spine is to calculate the page size (back + spine + front x height),
make a new document, and divide that one page into two columns with
spine width = column gutter.
--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com
Any nice and easy method to create...
Wow, thank you for the great response!! :)
Nina,
I noticed your InDesign method for creating a spread... If you change page numbering to start at ''2'' (Pages panel) and InDesign will create a spread for you-without the need to ignore an extra page.
Urszula
What size your document and how many pages and what stock is it being printed on?
If it's A4 (210 mm x 297 mm) then the cover will be 420 x 297 mm wide - the front cover is on the right and the back cover is on the left.
If it's a saddle stitched book (folded and stapled) then there is no need for a spine. Usually you would saddle stitch up to about 80 pages (depending on the stock of paper)
If it's a perfect bound, then it has a spine. This means that pages are printed in bundles of 16 or 32 and stacked on top of each other, the cover is then glued to the body. Sometimes it's threadsewn (use wire to keep the binding lasting longer).
The spine width is dependant on a few things. It depends on the amount of pages you have and the weight of the stock and the type of stock.
So if it's been perfect bound with a spine you need to talk to your printers. They will bind a blank book using the paper that you use for the body to measure the exact spine width.
With this information you can do the cover properly.
So if you have again an A4 book and it needs a cover. Then the first step is to create a new document. Insert 420 wide and 210 height. If you have your spine width then include it in the width. So say it's 10mm spine, then 420 + 10 = 430.
The next step in the new document dialogue box would be to create 2 columns. And give it a width of 10 mm. Now you a visual on the spine for the cover.
You will need to leave about 7 mm to the right and left of the spine, as this will be glued to the book and will have a fold mark, so you don't want any type to be on the crease of the fold (look at any book with a spine). Simply draw a guide at 420+10+7 or 437 on the x and y co-ords. Then draw another guide at 420 - 7 = 413.
So now you should have the spine width clearly marked with the purple margin lines. and you have the ''no-type area'' marked with blue (considering you have blue for the colour of your guides).
Now all you have to do is lay out the cover on the spread - front cover on the right and back cover on the left side.
If you need to have inside covers, then another another page (or drag your page from the panel to the New Page to duplicate what you've done). Erase any artwork you have on there and start the inside of the cover.
Remember the left side is the Inside Front Cover and the Right Side is the Inside BACK cover.
It goes
Back Cover | Front Cover
Inside FC | Inside BC
(think about it )
The things to be wary about the inside covers are
Make sure you don't put text too close to the spine, it will get lost in the spine and won't be able to read it.
Do not put any colours, images text on the spine on the INSIDE only (fine for the outside). The glue will not stick to the ink and the cover will just fall off eventually. Leave the spine area free of any ink.
Subscribe to:
Posts
(Atom)